stay away from Granatelli Motor Sports !

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by CyberPredator

I agree with that but they were implying that somehow sub 1000whp the bigger engine would make the turbos just fail like the turbos weren't being over spun but over accelerated. Wasn't about full tilt it was just about cubic inches. That's where my issue with it was. I'm not sure what his goals are but with like with most things in life and cars if something has a stated limit and you frequently push that limit or more it will likely fail.

Gotcha.

[CyberPredator]

But that conversation is in the past. My bringing it up was more me mentioning 1 more potential fear to the design of that kit, something that I haven't experienced with the IPS kit and I was one of the first people to have the IPS kit on my car.

[SSE 4 2SS]

Cyber, thanks for chiming in... There are a lot, apparently, of folks running the kit turbos, and probably more running the bigger turbos I ended up with...

I had the original 62/65's, then the ball bearing 62/65's, and when those became questionable, they started "rattling," precision upgraded them to 67/66's which are what I blew two of up at the mile... Drivers side Friday, first pass, 4th gear at just over 180 at the third mile...had a new replacement overnighted from precision and turned right around and blew it up Sunday morning... First full pull pass on the new drivers side turbo...

The supposition is that we are way over spinning them to make the boost due to the size and inefficiency...we create tons of boost related heat... We were at 25 lbs of boost...

For that reason, we are redesigning our kit from scratch... Huge inter cooler, 76/75 h cover turbos with a T4 hot side... They will be mounted next the bell housing again, but in a completely different configuration. We'll be notching and boxing the frame...

As GGG mentioned, if I remember correctly, the kit turbos are rated for around 900 hp... With a properly sized motor... Probably a max or 3.1 liters per turbo... I am spitting 3.5 liters plus at each of them, spinning the motor over 7 grand and standing on her for a full mile with spray...

Almost everyone I know running the 62/65's or the 67/66's is running a max of a quarter mile and stabbing it some on the street...

Quite different than what I'm asking of mine... Not better nor worse, just a learning curve for us... Like which vendors to trust and which ones to stay the hell away from...

As GGG alluded to, we are in somewhat seldom charted waters with my goals... We were at the Mile in March with over 1500 rwhp...that will be easier to achieve with the new bigger turbos... And Sean promises these turbos will handle it... Time will tell... These turbos have a mid frame center section with a much bigger shaft...

[*_ERIC_*]

So the moral of the story is don't screw the moderators, you'll lose business. LOL

I've never made a purchase from Granatelli myself. The only thing I even looked at from them were the spark plug wires. HA.

Honestly, their inventory and prices don't aren't all that great. I find great deals here from owners and other venders, ie. TSP, FSP, RPD, Maryland Speed, RPI and Phastek. I mean who in their right mind would spend nearly 1000 bucks on a 1G Suspension bracing package when our car doesn't even need it! Looks like marketed crap you find on Ebay. "Buy this resistor for your MAF sensor it increases hp +20" HA!

Reading this thread fairly thorough I'm trying to understand this. How does someone say 1600 for each turbo but the price for both is 3600? What is the other 400 for?Removal and installation? Then keeps your turbos to send them back to Precision to get repaired then resell them? I don't care if they came off his display motor. He sold them at over full price. Then gives you a later-to-be-determined refund. What kind of horses#!t is that?

I wrote TSP an email about building my engine. They sent me back a quote along with the buyback for the engine. That's just good business etiquette.

I understand people have their good and bad experiences with vendors. However, you would expect that a company would put the customer first. Especially one that has some PR pull. Just saying. Then again there are people out there who think that just because they are the customer they are 100% right. You have to exercise good judgement in any circumstance.

In any case, weren't these Turbos covered under some sort of warranty? Personally I would have looked into why they failed. If it was due to some sort of mechanic error then Granatelli would be 100% reliable. If they just failed due to design or engineering then that would be a liability on the manufacturer. And if they were sold without a warranty then you would be just SOL. But it still doesn't deter from the fact to why he kept your crap turbos, sent them for repairs to later sell them, especially being that you had another buyer for them. That, to me, is a little schiesty. I could see how the your time and the constant run around, failure to handle the situation properly, would eat away at your patience.

Personally, I don't trust Italians much. Ever see that movie "The Goodfellas"? Guys always trying to make a buck, scamming, and doing schiesty deals. Not saying every Italian is like that, but I tread water very lightly around them. Also goes to say the same for most backwoods shadetree mechanics.

Being a mechanic myself, I know the importance of attention to detail is to the customer. I wouldn't want to be suckered or screwed myself so why would I do the same to them just to make a quick buck. I wouldn't do that to someone who doesn't know mechanics or is just plain rich. I believe in hard work ethic and earning your keep.

SSE 4 2SS, I hope you get your resolve. I would probably consider hiring a lawyer.

Something every mechanic shop should live by, "If you don't have the time to do it right the first time, when will you have the time to do it over?".

[Smirnoff]

Originally Posted by JoeyB

Didn't do my homework, that simple. Won't happen again, thats for sure.
JR and his staff are GREAT salesmen, so if you meet them or talk to them on the phone they are very good at promising you the moon.
BUT, once they don't come thru on their promises they are completely the opposite. Nothing is their fault and it will cost you more $$ to fix their screwups.
I should have had some clue when I saw his mechanics were all very young, and JR constantly jumping on them when ever I went to check up on my car.
Bottom line, I had them do work on 3 of my vehicles and have problems with ALL 3 now.
Before they worked on them ZERO problems ! I just wanted more power and all I got was ripped off !
My advice is to shop elsewhere !

We wish you the best of luck to get your vehicles issues resolved, hopefully you have located a reputable shop, keep us informed. Also, you most likely will need an attorney to recover your financial damages.....include your atty. fee's in the suit.

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by *_ERIC_*

So the moral of the story is don't screw the moderators, you'll lose business. LOL

I've never made a purchase from Granatelli myself. The only thing I even looked at from them were the spark plug wires. HA.

Honestly, their inventory and prices don't aren't all that great. I find great deals here from owners and other venders, ie. TSP, FSP, RPD, Maryland Speed, RPI and Phastek. I mean who in their right mind would spend nearly 1000 bucks on a 1G Suspension bracing package when our car doesn't even need it! Looks like marketed crap you find on Ebay. "Buy this resistor for your MAF sensor it increases hp +20" HA!

Reading this thread fairly thorough I'm trying to understand this. How does someone say 1600 for each turbo but the price for both is 3600? What is the other 400 for?Removal and installation? Then keeps your turbos to send them back to Precision to get repaired then resell them? I don't care if they came off his display motor. He sold them at over full price. Then gives you a later-to-be-determined refund. What kind of horses#!t is that?

I wrote TSP an email about building my engine. They sent me back a quote along with the buyback for the engine. That's just good business etiquette.

I understand people have their good and bad experiences with vendors. However, you would expect that a company would put the customer first. Especially one that has some PR pull. Just saying. Then again there are people out there who think that just because they are the customer they are 100% right. You have to exercise good judgement in any circumstance.

In any case, weren't these Turbos covered under some sort of warranty? Personally I would have looked into why they failed. If it was due to some sort of mechanic error then Granatelli would be 100% reliable. If they just failed due to design or engineering then that would be a liability on the manufacturer. And if they were sold without a warranty then you would be just SOL. But it still doesn't deter from the fact to why he kept your crap turbos, sent them for repairs to later sell them, especially being that you had another buyer for them. That, to me, is a little schiesty. I could see how the your time and the constant run around, failure to handle the situation properly, would eat away at your patience.

Personally, I don't trust Italians much. Ever see that movie "The Goodfellas"? Guys always trying to make a buck, scamming, and doing schiesty deals. Not saying every Italian is like that, but I tread water very lightly around them. Also goes to say the same for most backwoods shadetree mechanics.

Being a mechanic myself, I know the importance of attention to detail is to the customer. I wouldn't want to be suckered or screwed myself so why would I do the same to them just to make a quick buck. I wouldn't do that to someone who doesn't know mechanics or is just plain rich. I believe in hard work ethic and earning your keep.

SSE 4 2SS, I hope you get your resolve. I would probably consider hiring a lawyer.

Something every mechanic shop should live by, "If you don't have the time to do it right the first time, when will you have the time to do it over?".

Believe me, there were a lot of raised eyebrows at the pricing for the sale of the ball bearing turbos.

Joey asked to keep them to put on his display motor while at the Fest, and if so, he would send them back for "ME" to have them repaired.

I called Precision and was told there was a note to send them back to J.R. when they were fixed. This happened... and then J.R. gave me a refund for an amount he determined was fair, and then sold the turbo's off in another kit to someone else.

I have no intention of hiring a lawyer...

This all occurred two years ago and I moved on. I had many request to post this info by people that were in the area at the time to show what happened and I kept refusing... Trying to stay above that level...

When I saw the joeyB post, I got pissed again and finally decided to air my story... Hopefully this will prevent others from going through this pain... It's giving other the chance to do their homework...

[CyberPredator]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

Cyber, thanks for chiming in... There are a lot, apparently, of folks running the kit turbos, and probably more running the bigger turbos I ended up with...

I had the original 62/65's, then the ball bearing 62/65's, and when those became questionable, they started "rattling," precision upgraded them to 67/66's which are what I blew two of up at the mile... Drivers side Friday, first pass, 4th gear at just over 180 at the third mile...had a new replacement overnighted from precision and turned right around and blew it up Sunday morning... First full pull pass on the new drivers side turbo...

The supposition is that we are way over spinning them to make the boost due to the size and inefficiency...we create tons of boost related heat... We were at 25 lbs of boost...

For that reason, we are redesigning our kit from scratch... Huge inter cooler, 76/75 h cover turbos with a T4 hot side... They will be mounted next the bell housing again, but in a completely different configuration. We'll be notching and boxing the frame...

As GGG mentioned, if I remember correctly, the kit turbos are rated for around 900 hp... With a properly sized motor... Probably a max or 3.1 liters per turbo... I am spitting 3.5 liters plus at each of them, spinning the motor over 7 grand and standing on her for a full mile with spray...

Almost everyone I know running the 62/65's or the 67/66's is running a max of a quarter mile and stabbing it some on the street...

Quite different than what I'm asking of mine... Not better nor worse, just a learning curve for us... Like which vendors to trust and which ones to stay the hell away from...

As GGG alluded to, we are in somewhat seldom charted waters with my goals... We were at the Mile in March with over 1500 rwhp...that will be easier to achieve with the new bigger turbos... And Sean promises these turbos will handle it... Time will tell... These turbos have a mid frame center section with a much bigger shaft...

Thanks for the response, very informative. I guess since it involved another member we were just arguing different points. I completely understand where you are coming from. Good luck with everything and when my car grows up it wants to be just like yours lol.

[JohnnyBfromPeoria]

I've always lived by "Take care of the cents and the dollars take care of themselves," in business. Disregard the cents (let's call it "sense") and no dollars will follow. I believe the situation will resolve itself, though at the expense of the posters who are out tons of money.

I would probably spend whatever it took as a business owner to make SSE 4 2SS's car work correctly, even if it wasn't the fault of my business/products/practices. What a great way to build good will and gain a solid reputation. But, sadly, I guess that's just not the way some people do business any more. It's too bad, but fortunately, there are forums like this one. Remember, what we post sticks around practically forever...

Have any of you read about the girl who is too young to drive but she's rebuilding a Pontiac Fiero to hopefully be done by the time she can get her license? Holy B@lls...a little bit of "being a good person" goes a long way. The people and companies who have pitched in to help her have my complete support.

Whatever "really" happened, Granatelli, it's really not too late. Do the right thing, even if it hurt$.

John B.

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBfromPeoria

I've always lived by "Take care of the cents and the dollars take care of themselves," in business. Disregard the cents (let's call it "sense") and no dollars will follow. I believe the situation will resolve itself, though at the expense of the posters who are out tons of money.

I would probably spend whatever it took as a business owner to make SSE 4 2SS's car work correctly, even if it wasn't the fault of my business/products/practices. What a great way to build good will and gain a solid reputation. But, sadly, I guess that's just not the way some people do business any more. It's too bad, but fortunately, there are forums like this one. Remember, what we post sticks around practically forever...

Have any of you read about the girl who is too young to drive but she's rebuilding a Pontiac Fiero to hopefully be done by the time she can get her license? Holy B@lls...a little bit of "being a good person" goes a long way. The people and companies who have pitched in to help her have my complete support.

Whatever "really" happened, Granatelli, it's really not too late. Do the right thing, even if it hurt$.

John B.

I haven't read that but I will be if I find it...

All, please know this... Being a moderator has nothing whatsoever to do with the situation. This event took place way before I was selected to be a mod.

What hurt J.R.s credibility as a solid businessman was the following my car had. It wasn't about me in any form or fashion. There were literally hundreds of people in attendance that were waiting to see this car, as evidenced by the build thread and the people standing around when J.R. Came over to talk about it.

He can try all he wants to deny that it was his kit, but, it was marketed and sold as the TTI/Granatelli or Granatelli/TTI kit, and they even argued it in my build thread as was posted here earlier...

I agree that as a businessman, occasionally you have to take your lumps, and if he had done so, I would have been a very vocal voice for him... As I am for the vendors I enjoy working with... And that list is long.

I know there are a number of people running other TT kits in their cars due to my opinion and comments. I still get asked a lot about TT kits via pm and other message formats...

At this point, I don't want anything from J.R. But I will be sure anyone that asks me will get access to my story. It's as simple as stating... Google Granatelli Motor Sports... Or bing it, or yahoo search it... Your choice...

[JohnnyBfromPeoria]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/24/tech/girl-builds-fiero

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/085309.html

It gets better the further in you get. She gets good press, she does good things, good things happen to her. Funny how that happens.

Vendors: Take a lesson from a girl too young to even drive!

John B.

[thahemp]

Word.

[rhunley14]

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! What a thread. Op I feel your pain as I have invested close to 30 k in my car also. I have had the luxury of putting 300 miles on my car in the last 12 mos. at this point, Ive really lost interest in my camaro. I wish I would have just kept my car stock. My car will never be the same and I'm out 30k. I feel your disappointment!