Autocross....equipment and mod questions

[EmeryZ28]

I did my first autocross last weekend and loved it, I plan to do more and even some track days down at Sebring eventually. My Camaro has been a fun car for almost a year now( no longer a DD), so I am looking to get more into the performance driving. I know the 2011 SS is a bit of a pig and not the best choice, but it is paid for and I like it, so it will be my "racer"

so here are my questions..

first, I used a loaner helmet at the autox and while that was great, it was a pretty fat bulbous helmet and even with the seat all the way down and me being only 5'8, with the damn low ceiling in a sunroof car, when I got in a good driving position, my head hit the ceiling. So I had to lean back more than I would have liked. What helmets are you guys using that fit in our squashed no headroom cars? also driving gloves, I was looking at some Alpine Stars karting gloves(I also do some karting), what gloves are you guys using and like that are reasonable priced?

As far as handling mods, I have a BMR STB, 1" BMR springs and 275 upfront and 315 meats in the back. I am not looking for an overhaul and I have plenty of tread life left, so I wont be changing tires soon.

as far as a bushing kit( not the $400+ package some places offer) what simple suspension bushing kit is the most recommended?

sway bars? I have read the 2011 are inadequate compared to the 2013-2015. Who offers the best upgrade package?

the BMR subframe connector is reasonable priced, do you recommend that?


thanks!

[Burt]

The 2012+ rear sway bar is a great place to start. You'll need new lower control arms, which you can get oem or aftermarket, new endlinks, and a new bar. Now, before you decide on a rear bar size, figure out what you want to do for shocks/springs first. If you want to make the jump to coilovers or Z/28 struts, I'd recommend staying with a stock front bar, and a 1LE rear bar. If you want to stay on the lowering springs, I'd recommend new struts (Konis or 1LE struts) and moving up to a 27mm front bar and 32mm rear bar. Justice Pete sells the big bars, and can come up with the other bits you'll need.

People recommend the bushings kits because there are a ton of them, and they're all soft. On my car, I've done Justice Pete's radius rod bushing inserts, BMR's steering rack bushing up front, and 1LE toe rods with speherical bushings, and BMR trailing arms with poly outer bushings. You could skip the steering bushing up front and add Z/28 upper control arm bushings in the rear, and it'll take a lot of the slop out of the suspension. You could also look at solid mounts for the rear subframe, but they're not cheap and will transmit a bit of noise/vibration.

Of course, an alignment and making sure the bushings are all timed is important too. Hope this helps!

[BMR Sales]

1st of all, you are in Tampa, so come on out & visit us

With a Sunroof, it is near impossible for a Helmet not to hit the roof if you are of any size.

I've Got Gloves from inexpensive Air Force Pilot gloves to expensive Stand 21, for A/Xing I like the Air Force Gloves ( they are single layer)

[SPCBA]

The helmet and sunroof thing is an issue even for small men. My helmet is on my roof without the sunroof... You can lower your seat with a different bracket about another 3/4 inch...

Make a plan before you start modding and stick there. Suspension mods could and should change if you change wheels,tires,power, intent of use, alignments, etc etc

You are are right the updated bars are better, but you don't need them. I run stock bars stock rear arms etc. I am just aligned and modded and drive in a way I don't need bars to make the car behave how I want.

Bushings tires wheels brakes and alignment are easily the lowest hanging fruit on the suspension in terms of price, ease of install, and improvements.

Start dialing in your driving style, alignment, and tire pressures before mods

[Nick S]

Biggest mod is....the NUT behind the wheel! Seat Time...Seat Time...Seat Time!! I know a lot of people don't believe it but if you consistently show up at Autocross events and leave your car just the way it is you WILL improve if you are actually trying to learn and improve your driving.

I look at it like this. If I gave my car to another really experience Autocrosser that was experienced with the 5th Gen and they were able to post times that were 3, 4, or 5 seconds faster than I can, then I have not learned how to use the car to it's fullest potential in it's current state. So why spend money on parts when what I really need to do is spend more money on track time and autocross time to get better myself.

I've been autocrossing for about 3 years now in my 1LE. There is a local guy that drives a 2013 Challenger SRT8 and he is a very good driver in that car. He was always 2 to 3 seconds faster than me. And he was on stock OEM tires, did not play around with air pressure settings or any of that. He just showed up each time, ran the car, drove it home. That's it. No special alignment or anything. So according to all the reviews I should be able to be faster than him base on the car capabilities and especially the weight advantage (one of the few times a 5th gen has a weight advantage!). So I just kept telling myself that until I can consistently put faster times than him down I know I'm not reaching the full potential of the car and I need to improve myself first before buying parts. The last autocross now I finally was able to put faster times down. I was about .6 seconds faster than the Challenger. This was only one event and one course layout. So if by the end of the season I am consistently putting faster times than him down I'll know I've actually improved my skills.

Just trying to help you focus on what will really help you the most if you are just starting out. And once you do improve your skills it's a lot more rewarding showing up in your stock Camaro and beating people that show up with cars that have $1000's in mods and they run slower times than you do. It's especially fun when they come up to you and ask you what mods you have done to run faster times and you say "None". And then they walk away asking how they could not run faster times than you when they have all these mods and you are stock. Answer...the NUT behind the wheel!

And I'm not saying that I think I'm a great driver. I'll be the first to admit that I still have a lot of learning to do. But it's nice to know I am improving with more seat time.

[EmeryZ28]

thanks for the input!

Ive been out to the BMR shop once before picking up my springs, might be back for some sway bars.

I agree 100% on the seat time. Last Saturday my first run was 45 seconds, then I dropped to 40 seconds, 39 seconds, and finally 37 seconds on my final run. The seasoned guys were all around 35 seconds on the course for that day and some of them were running that times in cars with much less power and handling.

I guess the thing I wanted to know most was a slimmer helmet if there is even such a thing, looks like this is a problem for everyone

[EmeryZ28]

can anyone chime in on what type of helmet they have, their height and how it fits in these low ceiling cars?

[BurningRubber]

I have this cheap snell helmet in large:
https://amzn.com/B00FE1XOAS

I also have a 2011 camaro ss with sunroof. At 6'2, and with the seat all the way down I still have to lean back a bit from my normal position to fit my head and helmet under the ceiling. I find that I can push my head into the ceiling a little bit to get almost where I want to be.
My suggestion is to sit in your car with your helmet on and fiddle around with the seat position until you get comfortable. I would prefer a little more head room, but I do feel like I improved my sitting position after messing with it a couple times.

[locktyght]

Originally Posted by EmeryZ28

can anyone chime in on what type of helmet they have, their height and how it fits in these low ceiling cars?

I have a bell open face.

I am not a tall man by any means, but no way in hell can I adjust my seat so that I am 1) comfortable and "up on the wheel" like i want to be and 2) able to not have my neck tucked into my shoulder blades like a half scared turtle due to the helmet hitting the head liner.

see attached video. it really does suck! sunroof......NEVER AGAIN

https://youtu.be/AT6AyVPIx3M?t=2m7s

[locktyght]

Originally Posted by SPCBA

The helmet and sunroof thing is an issue even for small men. My helmet is on my roof without the sunroof... You can lower your seat with a different bracket about another 3/4 inch...

Make a plan before you start modding and stick there. Suspension mods could and should change if you change wheels,tires,power, intent of use, alignments, etc etc

You are are right the updated bars are better, but you don't need them. I run stock bars stock rear arms etc. I am just aligned and modded and drive in a way I don't need bars to make the car behave how I want.

Bushings tires wheels brakes and alignment are easily the lowest hanging fruit on the suspension in terms of price, ease of install, and improvements.

Start dialing in your driving style, alignment, and tire pressures before mods

Can you shed a little more light on this? Who makes the bracket, does it require fabrication, and is the seat still adjustable, or is it a fixed position?


3/4'' isnt alot, but any thing helps

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Nick S

Biggest mod is....the NUT behind the wheel! Seat Time...Seat Time...Seat Time!! I know a lot of people don't believe it but if you consistently show up at Autocross events and leave your car just the way it is you WILL improve if you are actually trying to learn and improve your driving.

I look at it like this. If I gave my car to another really experience Autocrosser that was experienced with the 5th Gen and they were able to post times that were 3, 4, or 5 seconds faster than I can, then I have not learned how to use the car to it's fullest potential in it's current state. So why spend money on parts when what I really need to do is spend more money on track time and autocross time to get better myself.

I've been autocrossing for about 3 years now in my 1LE. There is a local guy that drives a 2013 Challenger SRT8 and he is a very good driver in that car. He was always 2 to 3 seconds faster than me. And he was on stock OEM tires, did not play around with air pressure settings or any of that. He just showed up each time, ran the car, drove it home. That's it. No special alignment or anything. So according to all the reviews I should be able to be faster than him base on the car capabilities and especially the weight advantage (one of the few times a 5th gen has a weight advantage!). So I just kept telling myself that until I can consistently put faster times than him down I know I'm not reaching the full potential of the car and I need to improve myself first before buying parts. The last autocross now I finally was able to put faster times down. I was about .6 seconds faster than the Challenger. This was only one event and one course layout. So if by the end of the season I am consistently putting faster times than him down I'll know I've actually improved my skills.

Just trying to help you focus on what will really help you the most if you are just starting out. And once you do improve your skills it's a lot more rewarding showing up in your stock Camaro and beating people that show up with cars that have $1000's in mods and they run slower times than you do. It's especially fun when they come up to you and ask you what mods you have done to run faster times and you say "None". And then they walk away asking how they could not run faster times than you when they have all these mods and you are stock. Answer...the NUT behind the wheel!

And I'm not saying that I think I'm a great driver. I'll be the first to admit that I still have a lot of learning to do. But it's nice to know I am improving with more seat time.

This ↑↑↑

Start the high performance side of your driving life out by driving the car that you know. At most, upgrade the shocks & struts and get a performance street alignment. Brake pads and fluid (stock size rotors will be fine) if you're going to get out on the big tracks.

Keep in mind that many of these mods make the car more responsive, and I don't think it's the greatest idea to be trying to re-learn your car at the same time that you're learning the performance driving fundamentals.

When you can identify things that the car should be doing better or at least differently is when your mod program should be picked up again. If you change things now, you might even end up changing them again later after you better know what it is that you want.


FWIW, I had a list of parts I wanted to get for the car in my sig even before I went in to order it. And I promptly put that whole list on the back burner while I learned to drive it the way it came and was developing a better plan than just blindly throwing parts at it and hoping for the best.


Norm

[clarkkent]

Originally Posted by BurningRubber

I have this cheap snell helmet in large:
https://amzn.com/B00FE1XOAS

I also have a 2011 camaro ss with sunroof. At 6'2, and with the seat all the way down I still have to lean back a bit from my normal position to fit my head and helmet under the ceiling. I find that I can push my head into the ceiling a little bit to get almost where I want to be.
My suggestion is to sit in your car with your helmet on and fiddle around with the seat position until you get comfortable. I would prefer a little more head room, but I do feel like I improved my sitting position after messing with it a couple times.

Keep in mind some tracks are picky and require Snell Auto certification (SA-20xx) and not Snell motorcycle (SM-20xx). From what I understand, the only difference is they test the SA ones for fire. Since if you're in a burning car it's important, vs on a motorcycle you won't be enveloped in flames (most likely)

[SPCBA]

Originally Posted by locktyght

Can you shed a little more light on this? Who makes the bracket, does it require fabrication, and is the seat still adjustable, or is it a fixed position?


3/4'' isnt alot, but any thing helps

If I recall it was a direct bolt in. Don't remember who sorry, google be your best bet. It retained all function.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by clarkkent

Keep in mind some tracks are picky and require Snell Auto certification (SA-20xx) and not Snell motorcycle (SM-20xx). From what I understand, the only difference is they test the SA ones for fire. Since if you're in a burning car it's important, vs on a motorcycle you won't be enveloped in flames (most likely)

SA helmets are also designed in anticipation of multiple hits, as an occupant could well be bouncing around inside a caged car (or just against the roof structure right above the side window) before it all comes to rest. A bike helmet is more intended for one big hit.

Back when I was autocrossing, my helmet used to pick up scuffs from time to time, so there was fairly frequent contact against the plastic coverings even in maneuvers well short of crash intensity.


Norm