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Old 10-19-2008, 01:24 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Kyle2k View Post
Yeah, but he was referring to moving it from the above position in the commodore/ute to where it was in his picture...This is where the stock location for the Camaro will be!
I guess I don't understand what you saying... that's the stock location for all 4 cars (ute, commadore, gto and camaro) - Are you talking about adding the air scoop above the radiator support, or are you talking about adding a K&N and removing the stock cover?

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Old 10-19-2008, 02:35 AM   #44
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For exactly the reason I stated. A car cannot go fast enough to introduce any pressure differential just by moving through the air. Gas is considered incompressible when the speed is below .3 mach which is about 230 mph depending on altitude. In other words, unless you can go faster then that, ram air doesn't exist.
It's more about density than compression - trying to access the cooler denser air outside the engine compartment, and I sure wouldn't call that ram air
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Old 10-19-2008, 05:31 PM   #45
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It's more about density than compression - trying to access the cooler denser air outside the engine compartment, and I sure wouldn't call that ram air
Exactly, all those intake systems gain power by getting cooler denser air into the engine not by getting more air in due to a pressure increase.
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:32 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Dan View Post
For exactly the reason I stated. A car cannot go fast enough to introduce any pressure differential just by moving through the air. Gas is considered incompressible when the speed is below .3 mach which is about 230 mph depending on altitude. In other words, unless you can go faster then that, ram air doesn't exist.
Where did you get your information?

Here's a very good article about cold air intake that also addresses the issue of ram-air.
http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/...es/rpo_zl2.htm

Keep in mind that hood is 40 years old. I guess they didn't know ram air doesn't exist under ~230mph. Silly Mr. Shinoda

Also keep in mind the ram air turbulence is no longer an issue, and any gain in air pressure at the intake is good, blowers attest to that fact to an extreme. The engines are considerably smaller, but motorcycles are seeing very good gains from ram-air.

I should also mention, I never stated incredible gains from ram-air in an auto, if you'll re-read my posts you'll see I'm touting 'cold air' intake. But when you say ram air doesn't exist, well, it does but only at ~230, well it does, but it's somewhat insignificant for a car...That last part I'll come closer to agree with. I'm sure you'll also agree that most of us at some time or another have used 'tricks' to gain even insignificant horsepower...K&N maybe? Hotter plugs? You get the idea.
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Old 10-19-2008, 11:36 PM   #47
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If only we had enough room in there to do this...:(



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Old 10-20-2008, 12:33 AM   #48
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:38 AM   #49
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i knoww, they had one at the Dallas Auto Show with the hood up, I was drooling...
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:16 AM   #50
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It's more about density than compression - trying to access the cooler denser air outside the engine compartment, and I sure wouldn't call that ram air
In this case, air density and air compression (pressure) are the same thing. And that's exactly what it is...Ram Air. Guess what a blower is...Yup, a mechanical Ram Air.
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:35 AM   #51
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Where did you get your information?

Here's a very good article about cold air intake that also addresses the issue of ram-air.
http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/...es/rpo_zl2.htm

Keep in mind that hood is 40 years old. I guess they didn't know ram air doesn't exist under ~230mph. Silly Mr. Shinoda

Also keep in mind the ram air turbulence is no longer an issue, and any gain in air pressure at the intake is good, blowers attest to that fact to an extreme. The engines are considerably smaller, but motorcycles are seeing very good gains from ram-air.

I should also mention, I never stated incredible gains from ram-air in an auto, if you'll re-read my posts you'll see I'm touting 'cold air' intake. But when you say ram air doesn't exist, well, it does but only at ~230, well it does, but it's somewhat insignificant for a car...That last part I'll come closer to agree with. I'm sure you'll also agree that most of us at some time or another have used 'tricks' to gain even insignificant horsepower...K&N maybe? Hotter plugs? You get the idea.
Looked it up in an aeronautical engineering textbook.
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:42 AM   #52
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In this case, air density and air compression (pressure) are the same thing. And that's exactly what it is...Ram Air. Guess what a blower is...Yup, a mechanical Ram Air.
Uhhhh, no. Pressure and density are never the same thing.

d = PM/RT where d=density, P=pressure, M=mass, R=universal gas constant, and T=temp. The density can be changed by changing the temperature without changing the pressure at all. You can see (hopefully) from that equation that lowering the temperature will increase the density with no change in pressure.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:19 PM   #53
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Uhhhh, no. Pressure and density are never the same thing.

d = PM/RT where d=density, P=pressure, M=mass, R=universal gas constant, and T=temp. The density can be changed by changing the temperature without changing the pressure at all. You can see (hopefully) from that equation that lowering the temperature will increase the density with no change in pressure.
However, they are directly proportional, if one goes up so does the other.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:30 PM   #54
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So that slot is non functional. Pity I was hoping GM would get away from some of those styling gimmicks.

They should have kept clean and functional. No silly do dads.
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:09 PM   #55
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Uhhhh, no. Pressure and density are never the same thing.

d = PM/RT where d=density, P=pressure, M=mass, R=universal gas constant, and T=temp. The density can be changed by changing the temperature without changing the pressure at all. You can see (hopefully) from that equation that lowering the temperature will increase the density with no change in pressure.
Excuse me, I should have said, "IN THIS CASE, air density and pressure are in direct correlation to each other, since air temperature variance is not a factor being that air density rises at a rate of .0017 PSI per 10 degree temperature change at 14 PSI.

So, anyways, whatcha think? Is ram-air via cold air scoop on a car hood possible?
Since you consider .0017 PSI to be significant enough to argue about, I take it your answer would be...yes?
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Old 10-20-2008, 03:05 PM   #56
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Excuse me, I should have said, "IN THIS CASE, air density and pressure are in direct correlation to each other, since air temperature variance is not a factor being that air density rises at a rate of .0017 PSI per 10 degree temperature change at 14 PSI.

So, anyways, whatcha think? Is ram-air via cold air scoop on a car hood possible?
Since you consider .0017 PSI to be significant enough to argue about, I take it your answer would be...yes?
You are still confusing pressure and density. Pressure is measured in PSI, density is not. Density is mass per unit volume. An increase of .0017psi is a pressure change, not a density change.
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