Are we giving up on the Z28?

[monstertodd]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

"Z/28" becomes ZL1...

What happened between the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) and the Chicago Auto Show (ZL1 Announcement)?

Something called a BOSS appeared...

Suddenly, a GT 500 competitor (blown V8, $50K+) had to be called "something else", because there was a serious effort by "those guys" at low-mid $40s that the MR'd LSA'd Camaro could not compete with...price-wise OR "concept"-wise...

That leaves room for the rightful heir to the hallowed Z/28 badge...price-wise AND "concept"-wise...with a healthy serving of humble pie, performance-wise...

Wise?

Stay tuned...

"Hot" LS3 with MR? Been proposed. Trouble is, no "hot" LS3 is certified/validated for Production...and remember, power-to-weight, a 3900 lb. MR'd Camaro will require at least 480 hp to outpower the BOSS... LS7? 500+...

The LS7 does seem like the most logical choice. The factory certification and tooling is already there. Although I read somewhere that the LS7 is going to be discontinued? I don't have a source for this, but I remember reading it on a C5 thread somewhere.

[LOWDOWN]

One of the problems of having soooo many threads touching on soooo many aspects of possible Z/28 development has to do with debunking certain urban legends...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...149090&page=34 Post #837

If they opened the facility with 10-12,000 "capacity", and are now building less than 5,000:

A) Capacity exists

TWO) If "capacity" exists, and "demand" exists, then "supply" should continue to be forthcoming...

Will there be an LS7 in a C-7 Vette?
Not likely.
Does there have to be for LS7 production to continue?
Not necessarily...

[2cnd chance]

I heard they will not be building the LS7 for the Gen17 Camaro is it true???

[DGthe3]

We won't hear anything about a Z28 from GM before the ZL1 hits the streets. We might not hear anything, ever. But we definately won't hear anything before then.

Could they do a 5th Gen Z28? Sure. They have most of the parts needed to do it sitting around. A lot of the engineering challenges have been solved with the ZL1. Between these two, a lot of the cost to do it has already been covered. So a short run at the end of the 5th gen life cycle is feasible, at least from my perspective. Bean counters at GM may see things differently, but the potential is there.

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I heard they will not be building the LS7 for the Gen17 Camaro is it true???

Well, the LS7 as we know it won't be around then. The Gen17 Camaro won't be here for probably at least 50 years. Maybe more than 100. However, it could have an engine designated 'LS7' because GM frequently recycles old engine names. Look up the history on the LS6, for example.

Or was Gen17 some sort of typo?

[91Z28350]

Yep, this we is.

[monstertodd]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

We won't hear anything about a Z28 from GM before the ZL1 hits the streets. We might not hear anything, ever. But we definately won't hear anything before then.

Could they do a 5th Gen Z28? Sure. They have most of the parts needed to do it sitting around. A lot of the engineering challenges have been solved with the ZL1. Between these two, a lot of the cost to do it has already been covered. So a short run at the end of the 5th gen life cycle is feasible, at least from my perspective. Bean counters at GM may see things differently, but the potential is there.



Well, the LS7 as we know it won't be around then. The Gen17 Camaro won't be here for probably at least 50 years. Maybe more than 100. However, it could have an engine designated 'LS7' because GM frequently recycles old engine names. Look up the history on the LS6, for example.

Or was Gen17 some sort of typo?

Oh yeah, for sure, they aren't going to make any announcements that could potentially affect sales of the forthcoming ZL-1. I guess we'll just have to see what GM brings to SEMA this year?

I'm pretty sure he was just making a sarcastic jab there. lol. All in good fun.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

One of the problems of having soooo many threads touching on soooo many aspects of possible Z/28 development has to do with debunking certain urban legends...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...149090&page=34 Post #837

If they opened the facility with 10-12,000 "capacity", and are now building less than 5,000:

A) Capacity exists

TWO) If "capacity" exists, and "demand" exists, then "supply" should continue to be forthcoming...

Will there be an LS7 in a C-7 Vette?
Not likely.
Does there have to be for LS7 production to continue?
Not necessarily...

my question is; why keep an engine that is going to be behind everything else in the inventory? by the time a possible Z28 hits the streets. especially if we are looking at selling less than 30 thousand or so cars.

I'm like your signature a broken record.
The time line for a DI engine looks good, to me. Maybe for all we know the next Z06 engine will have DI and built at the same facility as the old LS7. The 2014 vette will be hitting the streets about the same time a possible z28.

I don't expect an announcement until about mid way through 2012. and more then likely we'll have to wait until R&D is completed on test mules before 2013 starts.

It is possible they designed the z28 and developed it along with the zl1, but lets be honest. How many different types of cars can one team focus on. Especially specific market type cars like these. (IE ZL1 Hi performance with amazing tech goodies and Z28 HI performance road racer with little tech like MR). You're asking a lot from a Design team member. What would both these cars look like? would they be half arsed? meaning you could have gotten a lot more performance if focused on one car at a time. I'm sorry I don't think GM will be half doing anything like this any time soon.


monstertodd- GM has never debuted a production car at sema. just all the goodies you can get for them. one of the many reasons I think the ls7 will not make it into a z28.

[2cnd chance]

Sorry being sarcastic.

On a more serious note, what changes are made for DI, heads...?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

my question is; why keep an engine that is going to be behind everything else in the inventory? by the time a possible Z28 hits the streets. especially if we are looking at selling less than 30 thousand or so cars.

I'm like your signature a broken record.
The time line for a DI engine looks good, to me. Maybe for all we know the next Z06 engine will have DI and built at the same facility as the old LS7. The 2014 vette will be hitting the streets about the same time a possible z28.

I don't expect an announcement until about mid way through 2012. and more then likely we'll have to wait until R&D is completed on test mules before 2013 starts.

It is possible they designed the z28 and developed it along with the zl1, but lets be honest. How many different types of cars can one team focus on. Especially specific market type cars like these. (IE ZL1 Hi performance with amazing tech goodies and Z28 HI performance road racer with little tech like MR). You're asking a lot from a Design team member. What would both these cars look like? would they be half arsed? meaning you could have gotten a lot more performance if focused on one car at a time. I'm sorry I don't think GM will be half doing anything like this any time soon.


monstertodd- GM has never debuted a production car at sema. just all the goodies you can get for them. one of the many reasons I think the ls7 will not make it into a z28.

If there is one thing that GM is good at, its using the parts bin to make great cars.

[scythezo6]

I doubt GM wants to hatch all their eggs at once. SS, ZL1 & Z28 soon. GM hears us and they are filing the ideas away and working on it I'm sure. It may not even come out until the next redesign. I'm just speculating.

[2010_5thgen]

who says gm isnt doing anything about a z28? just because you havent heard anything doesnt mean nothing is being done. this is the ZL1's time to shine. the z28 will come in time. why say anything about the z28 now, when the damn ZL1 hasnt even come out yet? and do i think it will come in a 5th gen? i think it may as the last year for the 5th gen. and im hoping with a 7.0. but if it doesnt come as a 5thgen, it for sure will come as a 6th gen with a 5.5DI hopefully.

[SnoopyAce7]

yeah...GM brought the Camaro back with the fifth generation, including the ZL-1. So im pretty sure that means the z/28 is a given, just a matter of time. Maybe the hype over the ZL-1 is to get peoples' attention of the Camaro back and then they'll drop the z/28 on the market...idk though just my thoughts.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If there is one thing that GM is good at, its using the parts bin to make great cars.

I'm not saying that isn't possible. but to be testing two separate cars meant for two separate types of people at the same time can be bringing the quality down somewhere. the parts bin has the parts no doubt. just throw the parts on the car and get the testing done, at different times. we want the best car possible. not a BA ZL1 and a half done z28.

you can throw an LS7 in the camaro but to focus on the best weight distro, brakes, suspension setup, exhaust note, possible small features that go along way. . .etc takes focus and time. if developing both cars that the same time one car will receive more focus then the other. There is no point for the team to have taken a z28 test mule to the ring if they don't have a good setup to begin with to fine tune.

For the team to focus on two cars at once that require a lot of fine tuning is asking them to work 12+hr days to satisfy a small few.

on top of this it won't be like them to debut the ZL1 and then introduce a z28 the same year. That would likely eat into the sales of the ZL1. There are many that want a Z28 but can't wait. Those people will/have either bought an SS already and can wait for the Z28 to be done right, or they have put down a down payment on a ZL1. IF GM were to release the Z28 6 months after the ZL1 started shipping the people that haven't received their ZL1 will either back out or wait. GM would then be losing money until the Z28 debut. I would honestly expect the first snippet of real info about halfway through next year. and it will be some GM exec talking or a picture of a camaro testing on the ring with a different hood/body kit.

[OrangeVert]

Originally Posted by SnoopyAce7

yeah...GM brought the Camaro back with the fifth generation, including the ZL-1. So im pretty sure that means the z/28 is a given, just a matter of time. Maybe the hype over the ZL-1 is to get peoples' attention of the Camaro back and then they'll drop the z/28 on the market...idk though just my thoughts.

That makes sense ... when all goes quiet ... nothin' up my sleeve ... Presto! <just had this thought of Bullwinkle Moose pulling a Z/28 out of a hat>