What is a Z28 - Between the ZL1 and 1LE?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

At the risk of riling certain folks, let's take a stab @ building a $48K Base-priced LS7'd ZEE (NOT that we haven't done this a time 'r two):

1LE = "Under $40K"
DELETE the two 6-way Power Seats (when AG1 [P. Dr. Seat] and AG2 [P. Pass. Seat] were freeflow = $600/pr.)
ADD 1LS Seats-cloth
ADD CTS-V Brembos/2-piece Fr. rotors = $595
ADD LS7 = $7K (difference to LS3 "in crate")
ADD RamAir/Extractor Hood = $1,000

Depending on how much "under $40K" the 1LE is, there may be enougMh left over for a few incidentals...ZL1 side skirts, etc.

Heated/Ventilated Sport Seats in a CTS-V list for $3,500...over the price of Leather CTS seats with Dual 6-way Power...which, in a less-is-more ZEE, could be over $4Gs. Now you're over $50...and I start thinkin' nose-bleed...

for me it never gets old. I like the breakdown, just make sure it's the HW hood!

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

for me it never gets old. I like the breakdown, just make sure it's the HW hood!

...the HW hood does have an intrinsic appealing factor doesn't it? And the wheels as well...it's quite a concept piece...

[2cnd chance]

Adding the pieces from the HW Camaro should save on cost yet differentiate the Z28 from the other Camaros. Plus it looks Soooooooo cool!

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Adding the pieces from the HW Camaro should save on cost yet differentiate the Z28 from the other Camaros. Plus it looks Soooooooo cool!

... absolutely Chance! In my minds eye it is cool yes, and visionary....I see the past designs taken into context with modern retro styling cues on the HW...it's a level beyond the norm. But, new tooling for those items will drive up the production at the start, hence the ZL1's carried over parts for the 1LE project will keep that option down<use over the wheels, exhaust etc.., already paid for>. But I'm all about groundbreaking...and I undestand GM's positon about margins and profits, the processs will eventualy play itself out over time. That HW is a bad ass looking ride though....

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by truth411

The problem I have is and is often over looked is that an LS7 cost the same as an LSA so I dont see how it will come in at a price point much less than the ZL1. I say wait for the Gen V v8 that comes out for the 2014 MY Vette as well as the 7 spd Manual transmission that hooked up to the GEN V LT1 V8.

If you start with the 1SS + 1LE + ZL1 brakes then add the LS7 maybe you have a shot at say $47K.
(Complete wild guess, but I am getting the spirit of this forum )

There is something magic about 427 cubic inches. If ditching the dry sump saves a good chunk of dough, maybe we can live without it.

Then step up to a set of coil overs from one of our helpful vendors. There is not complete agreement on this but most think MRC does not belong on the Z28. So make it an option.

Of course others have said just about exactly this. (edit: Just above here. Doh.)

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Gramps69Z

We want to welcome you to our little corner of the building.

Come in and enjoy yourself................ cold ones are in the fridge.

If one or some of us seem rude please don't take it personally we just get tired of the SOSDD.

With the announcement of the 1LE, it's not a question of if we get our Z/28, but when.
GM hurry the *f u c k* up and announce something..
Please shut down the computers and turn the lights off before you leave.

Thanks, but no one has been rude. I was just getting Z28 schooled. My own fault.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

At the risk of riling certain folks, let's take a stab @ building a $48K Base-priced LS7'd ZEE (NOT that we haven't done this a time 'r two):

1LE = "Under $40K"
DELETE the two 6-way Power Seats (when AG1 [P. Dr. Seat] and AG2 [P. Pass. Seat] were freeflow = $600/pr.)
ADD 1LS Seats-cloth
ADD CTS-V Brembos/2-piece Fr. rotors = $595
ADD LS7 = $7K (difference to LS3 "in crate")
ADD RamAir/Extractor Hood = $1,000

Depending on how much "under $40K" the 1LE is, there may be enough left over for a few incidentals...ZL1 side skirts, etc.

Heated/Ventilated Sport Seats in a CTS-V list for $3,500...over the price of Leather CTS seats with Dual 6-way Power...which, in a less-is-more ZEE, could be over $4Gs. Now you're over $50...and I start thinkin' nose-bleed...

Sorry to make you go through this again. But might the LS7 cost more than the difference of the crates? I know nothing about the expense of plopping an existing engine in a different car from Chevy's point of view.

Are you starting with a 2SS? Can we afford a non brand name seat? Wasn't the one from the GTO better?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

If you start with the 1SS + 1LE + ZL1 brakes then add the LS7 maybe you have a shot at say $47K.
(Complete wild guess, but I am getting the spirit of this forum )

There is something magic about 427 cubic inches. If ditching the dry sump saves a good chunk of dough, maybe we can live without it.

Then step up to a set of coil overs from one of our helpful vendors. There is not complete agreement on this but most think MRC does not belong on the Z28. So make it an option.

Of course others have said just about exactly this. (edit: Just above here. Doh.)

Welcome aboard!

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Thanks, but no one has been rude. I was just getting Z28 schooled. My own fault.

Welcome aboard! I think perhaps you are realizing that we respond better to honest discussion than we do to negativity. I look forward to your input in this forum, lots of good ideas have been proposed here and I'm sure there will be many more.
Clyde

[OldScoolCamaro]

We think and talk outloud. No one is right or wrong. We share a common bond. Most of us are older guys and want a Z/28 and to go fast. Frills are not that important. It's more about the sum of the parts rather than ergonomics. We had alot of choices back then. Today little to none. Since today it's either package A or B, I feel we err on the side of HP and outright performance is the goal. Heritage also is important. Join us with out cause, come one, come all.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by wildpaws

Welcome aboard! I think perhaps you are realizing that we respond better to honest discussion than we do to negativity. I look forward to your input in this forum, lots of good ideas have been proposed here and I'm sure there will be many more.
Clyde

Disagreement can come across as negativity. I must choose my words carefully and not post recklessly.

A wise idea for any forum. Always a challenge for me.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Disagreement can come across as negativity. I must choose my words carefully and not post recklessly.

A wise idea for any forum. Always a challenge for me.

...looks to me you are on the right path...well said!

[LOWDOWN]

1) Is it a necessary mission of GM to get EVERY ELEMENT "PERFECT" on the Z28?

What the heck ya talkin' 'bout, boy?

As we have seen with the 1LE "intro", all manner of bitchin' is goin' on 'bout that car havin' a "wrapped" hood in Matte Black, NO Recaros, ZL1 exterior components, etc. So...how does GM get the ZEE "perfect", and/or what should owners be expected to "personalize", after purchase?

Personally, getting into factory-installed SuperSeats is a needless extra GM expense. The price of the car will balloon, and what's provided may NOT be what I want...or you want...and you've already paid serious money for 'em. If they're an option, fine, as long as they're what I want... Again, the more elements seeking "perfection", the slower the process and the greater the expense. THAT is why I seek non-powered 1LS seats...lower cost than Dual 6-ways and, if I decide to upgrade, I'll upgrade to suit ME, at no greater additional cost over a "maybe" GM feature...

2) "Why do we need more than the 1LE?"

I think it would be foolhardy to think Dearborn is now on vacation till the next-Gen Stang arrives...which by the way will appear well before the Gen-6 Camaro. You can be SURE Dearborn is massagin' "something" besides the GT 500. IF the BOSS LS needle moves, Camaro better be ready...with 6-pot Brembos AND more steam AND (possibly) more suspension...

3) "You're crowding the ZL1"

Base Price, BOSS LS vs. Base Price, '12 GT 500? Hmmmm...

I'm also surprised at the animosity the thought of a jenn-you-wine ZEE causes within certain branches of the Camaro Family Tree. SSers AND ZL1-folk, alike. I think the fear of a souped-up n/a 250+ lb. lighter Camaro scares the be-jeebers out o' some ZL1 owners/intenders, while the SSers see their status now lowered to Tier 3 (below 1LE) and fear a further drop to Tier 4 (below the ZEE and 1LE)...

4) "Which concept is appropriate for the Z28?"

At SEMA '10, GM unveiled the SSX...hardcore, baby!

At SEMA '11, GM unveiled an MRC'd SS called "1LE"...streetable without a kidney belt, race-able, track-able...BUILD-able, minus the MRC...

If GM announces a '13.5 ZEE, which suspension system is BEST for STREET - TRACK - $ALE$?

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Sorry to make you go through this again. But might the LS7 cost more than the difference of the crates? I know nothing about the expense of plopping an existing engine in a different car from Chevy's point of view.

The greatest engineering differences between the LS3 and LS7 have to do with block, con-rods, and cylinder heads.

Replacement ti rods for the LS7 run about $800/each. The heads have bigger ports, with enhanced machining. The block is tapped for dry-sump, and made with premium alloy. I doubt they lose money on either crate engine...

As to an "upgraded" engine, it certainly reduces costs for a relatively low-production car to utilize an "off-the-shelf" OEM-optional engine. LS7 has passed all the OEM tests for emissions and durability...steps NOT accomplished (yet) by a GMPP crate engine based on the LS3. "Time is money", goes the ol' saying, so readying a GMPP-hotrodded LS3 for OEM production will take BOTH...drawing its actual "as-installed" costs closer to the LS7, and yet still NOT being a "427" and still NOT matching its "as-installed" numbers of 500+ hp and 470 tq. As powerful as an LS3 may be made, in GM-warrantable form the LS7 will always make more power. Heck, a "tune" and LTs will get it very close to 500 hp @ the rear wheels...a number the ZL1 boys sure wouldn't want us to have!