Bob Lutz interview

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

by debatable I meant that the SS didn't always mean performance. . .Z28 did.

I will have to agree to some extent, but there were a few years of Z28 where the word Performance was debatable.... Comparatively speaking to other cars of the era yes, but compared to other Z28s no, mid to late 70's were a very bad time for any performance car. the name remained except for a couple years when it dissapeared but the performance as we knew it in previous years and years to come was non existant.
Although I hate Edmunds new car reviews, This history of the Camaro is pretty much accurate.
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/camaro/history.html
Note when they talk about the 77 Camaro having the same engine you could get in any camaro...

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

I think I may have gotten this thread mixed up with another on where i posted about he history of the Z28 compared to the SS, and if i did i am sorry... Hard to remember what you posted and where at my age...LOL

You may have misinterpreted what I said, Because the SS has been around not only longer,by longer i didn't mean how many years it was produced but it was the first performance line of Chevys. The Z28 was a very good performer for ONE car line and only ONE car line.
By the way I stated the ss package was an appearance package(On Malibus and Novas) to promote a sporting image, and could even be had with a 6 cyl. engine. MOST SS cars were ordered with higher performance equipment for Drag racing (the 61 you could get a 348 or 409 Big block in it) and street racing... as it's reputation Grew for high performance then we got such legends as the SS396 Chevelles, Camaros and Novas, The SS 427 Impalas, The SS454 Chevelles..

While the Z28 stuck with the small block 302 or 350 engine it's entire life.
Actually the Camaro Z28 was only truly sucessful in Trans-am racing from 1967-1969, only because of Roger Penske and Mark Donohue. After that when Penske Switched to AMC the Camaro slowly faded from the Trans-Am scene... so I think that the many years of success of the SS line overhadows the 3 successful years that the Camaro had in Trans-am racing.

If you Want to just stick to the Camaro line, I think if you will check I believe in every year that the Z28 and Camaro SS co-exisited the SS always had the bigger engine or highest HP available for that year.

I hope you dont get all your car info through Wikipida.. LOL

This post is getting very long, so I left out details like years of production and engine availability but I can dig up that info from my vast archives of chevrolet info i have available ...

Yes the "Box" as you call him is my son...

Yeah, there's no arguing SS has been around longer, and that it has been on more cars, but that doesn't, IMHO, make it any better than the Z28. I'm only considering Camaro line in my statements though (as this is a Camaro forum ) I'm not sure referring the years SS was as an appearance package is necessarily appropriate when comparing it to another package that only meant performance it's entire life. Even if we count the years SS was performance, I still think you're right though. I think a point about Z28 always representing performance gives it a little more value in this regard but again, like you've said, in terms of usage and duration, SS has it licked. In fact, I really didn't know that SS started as an appearance package until I found it on Wiki' and then looked at your post again - hey, learn something new every day

Yeah, Wiki' is not my regular referrence. I have all my books at home, LOL

I think that a bigger engine or higher power doesn't necessarily always make a better car in all cases though. I don't know that I would say a aluminum-headed big-block (let alone iron heads) SS396 is going to turn and burn like a 302 or a 350 would around the track. They were two different packages for two different forms of racing. I know that Z28s in the second generation could pull bottom 14s and handled great. I don't recall 396/402s running too much better, but didn't handle all that well.

I can sum up my feelings in one statement: Z28 is at least as important as SS is to Camaro and I think it would be a shame not to have both

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by radz282003

I can sum up my feelings in one statement: Z28 is at least as important as SS is to Camaro and I think it would be a shame not to have both

With this I agree 100%

[Speedy1975]

All you guys hung up on the Z28 I have a question for you....

What if Chevy does make the Z28....but wait....it's a twin turbo V6. Would you still be all goo goo ga ga over it then?

This is more of a reality than a blown V8 from the factory.

Now, they could offer a "Z28 Accessory Package" from GMPP that included a blower, ECU flash, etc, etc and likely get around the CAFE regs.

Gas is just too expensive these days unfortuneately and Uncle Sam is gonna try to act like they're doing something about it by dictating regulations on new vehicles.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

All you guys hung up on the Z28 I have a question for you....

What if Chevy does make the Z28....but wait....it's a twin turbo V6. Would you still be all goo goo ga ga over it then?

This is more of a reality than a blown V8 from the factory.

Now, they could offer a "Z28 Accessory Package" from GMPP that included a blower, ECU flash, etc, etc and likely get around the CAFE regs.

Gas is just too expensive these days unfortuneately and Uncle Sam is gonna try to act like they're doing something about it by dictating regulations on new vehicles.

this should really either be moved to the Z28 thread or the poll on the z28.


but if by the small possibility you are right with that "theory." I personally don't think it does the z28 moniker justice but that's personal opinion.

now aside from doing it justice, in reality depending on the performance numbers I'd consider it. the SS to me is not what I want. I will probably end up buying an SS/RS convertable but still want a Z28.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

this should really either be moved to the Z28 thread or the poll on the z28.


but if by the small possibility you are right with that "theory." I personally don't think it does the z28 moniker justice but that's personal opinion.

now aside from doing it justice, in reality depending on the performance numbers I'd consider it. the SS to me is not what I want. I will probably end up buying an SS/RS convertable but still want a Z28.

I guess it all depends. The Z28 historically had a smaller engine right? Might just fit. Also, it's 2008 not 1969.

I think Z28 just meant performance, not necessarily performance only if provided by a V8.

I'm not gonna argue the point either way as it doesn't really matter to me. I just wanted to throw that out there.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I guess it all depends. The Z28 historically had a smaller engine right? Might just fit. Also, it's 2008 not 1969.

I think Z28 just meant performance, not necessarily performance only if provided by a V8.

I'm not gonna argue the point either way as it doesn't really matter to me. I just wanted to throw that out there.

who's arguing? you asked an opinion and I gave mine. also I even entertained the idea and said I'd even consider it.

and i'm not stuck in 1969. I wasn't even a live until 12 years later.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

With this I agree 100%

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

All you guys hung up on the Z28 I have a question for you....

What if Chevy does make the Z28....but wait....it's a twin turbo V6. Would you still be all goo goo ga ga over it then?

This is more of a reality than a blown V8 from the factory.

Now, they could offer a "Z28 Accessory Package" from GMPP that included a blower, ECU flash, etc, etc and likely get around the CAFE regs.

Gas is just too expensive these days unfortuneately and Uncle Sam is gonna try to act like they're doing something about it by dictating regulations on new vehicles.

I think the first thought out of my mind was Z28 is a V8 not a TT V6!!! Then, after I took a moment, the next thought was: well, Z28 also used to be almost a stripper model that had like the lowest V8 horsepower rating (okay, 290 was a joke and many thought it was really 400, but I digress...) that was meant to be a track car, not a 1320 or GT car (like I would love.) Okay, but wait, now I'm suggesting that it can't be a Z28 because it has a V6, regardless of power, even though the Z28 was the track-car, which isn't what I'm looking for next. How can I say it's not a Z28 because it's not a V8 when the GT-car was not the original formula either?! So to answer your question, I want Z28 to have the most power, so I'd have to conceed to the weird V6 exhaust note, and like it.

I'd be plenty happy with an accessory package if GM would warranty it and it was a reasonable price; H3LL yeah!!! I guess I just would really like it to be the '03-'04 Cobra/GT-fighter that I've always wanted since it first came out. I've always been jealous how easy it was for them to make power because they already had a supercharger. If the Z28 came out first, and there was no SS to speak of at SORP, then I'd probably be boo-hoo'ing over SS. I'd still like Z28 more, but I'm crossing my fingers for the '03-'04Cobra/GT-fighter.

Allow me one question (that's not really on topic, but I don't know where to put it, and am not going to start a new thread for it):

Why does it seem like the people who aren't interested in a Z28 come off (frankly) like there's no reason for one/ it isn't important and significant/ it isn't relavent because they're personally happy with the SS? I'm not asking directly to anyone because it's not fair, and because a lot have expressed the opposite, it's just, time and time again, when Z28 is brought up, so many feel compelled to pretty much either say it won't happen/ doesn't matter/ you don't need it because there's SS/ or many other number of reasons. I don't really think that I'm the only one that feels this way, but wonder why it is that this is a constant with this topic. It could be I'm overreacting, but I know there are others (probably not too many) that probably feel similarly. If those of you that feel this way are happy with SS, great!!! I'm happy for you too

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Allow me one question (that's not really on topic, but I don't know where to put it, and am not going to start a new thread for it):

Why does it seem like the people who aren't interested in a Z28 come off (frankly) like there's no reason for one/ it isn't important and significant/ it isn't relavent because they're personally happy with the SS? I'm not asking directly to anyone because it's not fair, and because a lot have expressed the opposite, it's just, time and time again, when Z28 is brought up, so many feel compelled to pretty much either say it won't happen/ doesn't matter/ you don't need it because there's SS/ or many other number of reasons. I don't really think that I'm the only one that feels this way, but wonder why it is that this is a constant with this topic. It could be I'm overreacting, but I know there are others (probably not too many) that probably feel similarly. If those of you that feel this way are happy with SS, great!!! I'm happy for you too

Amen. I shouldn't feel like I have to defend my view and stance every time I turn around about having a z28. but oh well. I'll deal with it and if a z comes I'll be in line to get one.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Why does it seem like the people who aren't interested in a Z28 come off (frankly) like there's no reason for one/ it isn't important and significant/ it isn't relavent because they're personally happy with the SS? I'm not asking directly to anyone because it's not fair, and because a lot have expressed the opposite, it's just, time and time again, when Z28 is brought up, so many feel compelled to pretty much either say it won't happen/ doesn't matter/ you don't need it because there's SS/ or many other number of reasons. I don't really think that I'm the only one that feels this way, but wonder why it is that this is a constant with this topic. It could be I'm overreacting, but I know there are others (probably not too many) that probably feel similarly. If those of you that feel this way are happy with SS, great!!! I'm happy for you too

Logically speaking, in the heritage of the Camaro as I have pointed out it has never been the Z28's place to be the top dog when there has been a SS model around.
EVERYTHING that has been said by the designers and Management over the Camaro resurfacing has promoted heritage with a modern flair. Asking for a Z28 that is different in purpose than those that came before is not sticking to the plan set forth by the designers.IMO

I would love to see both a SS and Z28, but I would also Love to see them remain true to their heritage.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Why does it seem like the people who aren't interested in a Z28 come off (frankly) like there's no reason for one/ it isn't important and significant/ it isn't relavent because they're personally happy with the SS? I'm not asking directly to anyone because it's not fair, and because a lot have expressed the opposite, it's just, time and time again, when Z28 is brought up, so many feel compelled to pretty much either say it won't happen/ doesn't matter/ you don't need it because there's SS/ or many other number of reasons. I don't really think that I'm the only one that feels this way, but wonder why it is that this is a constant with this topic. It could be I'm overreacting, but I know there are others (probably not too many) that probably feel similarly. If those of you that feel this way are happy with SS, great!!! I'm happy for you too

I hope I didn't come across like that, if so, that wasn't the intent. However, to answer your question, it seems the majority on this board are youngish (33? and under). Most won't even really remember the Z28. I'm in this category, but being a muscle car enthusiast I have some reasonable knowledge of the car and just to brush up read an article on the 69' model. So that's my theory on an answer to your question.

I'm sure there'll be a Z28 at some point IF the Camaro is as successful as we think it will be. The million dollar question though is what form will the Z28 take.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

who's arguing? you asked an opinion and I gave mine. also I even entertained the idea and said I'd even consider it.

and i'm not stuck in 1969. I wasn't even a live until 12 years later.

Sorry, wasn't saying you were aruging. My point is that times are changing and with that performance cars will have to change as well. Nothing more nothing less.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Sorry, wasn't saying you were aruging. My point is that times are changing and with that performance cars will have to change as well. Nothing more nothing less.

it's all good. my mistake sorry.

[Angrybird 12]

Well performance cars are changing, and the main reason the Z28 was built no longer exists, so maybe it is time for the Z28 to boldly go where no performance car has been before... Faster than a sppeding SS, More powerful than a GT500, Look down the track, It's a Bird, It's a Plane, NO its the SUPER Z28... How about combining the best of both the Z28 and SS camaro and call it the>>>>
SS/Z
ok some are going to argue it should be the other way around... get over it LOL