BTR Stage 2 vs. BTR Stage 3 cams GO!!

[pyroguy]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

Stuck on those two cams huh …..LOL oh well.

I'm not going to beg a company to respond to me. I've tried multiple times over multiple years to get information from them with no luck. Out of the companies that care to earn my business I've found that these cams are the ones that are most consistently recommended by reputable tuners I've talked to. "LOL" all you want.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by pyroguy

I'm not going to beg a company to respond to me. I've tried multiple times over multiple years to get information from them with no luck. Out of the companies that care to earn my business I've found that these cams are the ones that are most consistently recommended by reputable tuners I've talked to. "LOL" all you want.

Have you actually tried to reach them through an e-mail to them directly or a phone call? I'm just saying, if I was trying to actually reach someone I wouldn't confine my attempts to a third party website forum. I'm not sure why you've never had a response through here - but I wouldn't consider this a very reliable method.

Nothing wrong with BTR or TSP either - they are great products and I don't think you'd go wrong with either one of them. My advice stands that if you are gonna hang on to the stock converter and gears you want to make a choice based around that decision.

Formato has a fun youtube channel going now - I'm enjoying his Caprice build! He's certainly knowledgeable, if you have an open line of communication with him I'd lean heavily on his recommendation.

And my offer stands to get you in touch with GPI directly. Their VVT specific stuff is really top shelf. I'm disappointed you've had trouble reaching them. My confidence in their product and ability to offer you the kind of customer service you deserve is high, and I'd love to help give them a chance to prove that.

[pyroguy]

Originally Posted by acammer

Have you actually tried to reach them through an e-mail to them directly or a phone call? I'm just saying, if I was trying to actually reach someone I wouldn't confine my attempts to a third party website forum. I'm not sure why you've never had a response through here - but I wouldn't consider this a very reliable method.

Nothing wrong with BTR or TSP either - they are great products and I don't think you'd go wrong with either one of them. My advice stands that if you are gonna hang on to the stock converter and gears you want to make a choice based around that decision.

Formato has a fun youtube channel going now - I'm enjoying his Caprice build! He's certainly knowledgeable, if you have an open line of communication with him I'd lean heavily on his recommendation.

And my offer stands to get you in touch with GPI directly. Their VVT specific stuff is really top shelf. I'm disappointed you've had trouble reaching them. My confidence in their product and ability to offer you the kind of customer service you deserve is high, and I'd love to help give them a chance to prove that.

I tried through here because I was casually looking at the times that I had reached out in the past. As sponsors of the site, especially while the 5th gen was still in production, I figured this would be a rather reliable way to get in touch with them. Now that I'm through the more "homework" side reaching the more "I'm ready to purchase" side I'm having to rely on my homework.

I've thought about TSP as well and until I really started talking serious with tuners I'd asked about keeping VVT and that's when Jeremy mentioned the TSP 2.2 VVT cam which I thought about. He said that he had made some good power out of one that he had installed recently he thought it was a good cam. However, even then most of the tuners I was talking to recommended dropping the VVT and going with the LS3 conversion. Out of my homework and some tuner recommendations (TSP don't worry, Jeremy has NOT recommended against your cams) I've seen the BTR stage 3 come up a lot with some recommendations for the stage 2. He put the stage 3 in his Caprice, which I too have been watching his channel, and then drove it back to FL from PA. I think he has the tune down for it real well utilizing the stock converter and surprisingly enough, many of his high power customer cars that go through Keith's Pit Stop there in Gettysburg, PA are actually running stock converters and still killing it at the track. If I can save $1k on a converter and another $X,XXX of dollars getting it installed then that money can be put towards other mods. I just don't want to sacrifice the driveability of the car simply because I didn't want to fork out cash that is necessary.

[RLNTLSS]

Do that and beef up the trans cooling...with deeper pan and standalone cooler or add on cooler.... Im about to get my mitts on a moshimoto oil cooler..but prolly wait it out till nxt summer.

[go_go_gadget88]

**Edit - I see you mentioned doing LS3 conversion while typing my response so removing the first part**

Not an auto here so my opinion is limited, but I have been around quite a few cammed auto cars. Also, I wouldn't have any hangups about going with BTR pyro..I hear nothing but good about them! If I had to do mine again, I would totally still go TSP just because they were super helpful to deal with, and the products have been fantastic so far. But I can't say I'm not curious how the BTR stage IV would have compared to my TSP cam.


I will say, if you are dead set on keeping stock converter, my vote goes towards the stage 2 out of these options. It's not what I would do, but it will probably give you a better experience than the stage 3, everything else being the same. I realize that this is your car, your hard earned money, and nobody but you should decide how you spend it...but I would urge you to reconsider this and hold out a bit longer until you can do a stall converter with it, and get the stage 3. That's a bunch of money to put down to know you still left a lot on the table with those components imo.

Since the cost of parts and labor is the same, obviously the stage 3 would be a bigger "bang for the buck", but sticking that big cam in a heavy car with stock converter/gears is a large investment for something that's probably going to feel slower in most driving scenarios than it is right now. Not to mention any drive quality issues that also pop up.

I know you are looking for people with these 2 cams for direct experience, and that's definitely a good thing! Shows you aren't rushing into the decision. But I will be shocked if you find many running these cams with the stock converter/gears to hear how they are. Historically, that's just a recipe for a dog of a car with any automatic. I don't know any tuners that would really recommend that setup either.

If you cloned your car and put a stage 1 cam with a stall in one, and a stage 3 cam with factory stall in another...I would put my money on the stalled car in a 1/4 mile race. They wake the car up! Just go look at the fast list and see how many of the cammed cars have converter listed as well.

[RLNTLSS]

Theres other forums i also checked out that are common with the 6.2 camaros.. that had healthy info on stalls and cam combos.. that gave some pros and cons..

[L99problems]

Believe it or not there are may shops and tuners out there that seem to think of DOD/VVT as the same thing. Many shops and tuners don't know how to tune VVT and that's why a lot of them recommend the LS3 conversion because it's what they are familiar with and it works well.

A good VVT cam when correctly tuned will outperform a non VVT cam of the same spec. With that being said, there is absolutely nothing wrong a good non-VVT cam either.

If you want to contact GPI email Ryan. ryan@gogwatney.com

He was very quick to respond to my emails and was extremely helpful. Also during business hours if you visit their website they have a live chat that will pop up and you can ask questions there as well. Between those two things I had all my questions answered and then some.. Good luck!

[acammer]

Originally Posted by camar0ss

Believe it or not there are may shops and tuners out there that seem to think of DOD/VVT as the same thing. Many shops and tuners don't know how to tune VVT and that's why a lot of them recommend the LS3 conversion because it's what they are familiar with and it works well.

THIS!!! VVT is not something to give up just cause. Especially if you're staying on the stock stall, you want to really maximize the bottom end, and VVT will certainly help you there.

[christianchevell]

There are actually many more vendors out there making many more cams you have not even read up on or attempted to talk too. I agree with Andrew..... VVT is a keeper, and your not being wise to loose it and there have been lots of old posts showing the difference in the performance and the vast gain from using a cam with VVT. I had a ls99 back when they first made the convertible in 2010 I owned a brand new triple black 2011 2ss rs Vert; and read up on the first companies making new cam phasers and VVT cams back then as I usually always ahead of the curve due to research. I suggest you really need to research more; or you can live with regret an leave power on the table. https://www.mastmotorsports.com/products/l99-l92-ss-cam MAST was the first..... Here read up...….

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp...-valve-timing/


If I kept my first SS I would have gone VVT cam before others on here were and before it was really recommended by varied shops over the years....vendors and sponsors have come and gone, some close, some move on to other sites and don't want to pay for so little business...… Its all I can count on practically; CHANGE..... its not too late. And speaking of homework some of us were outstanding graduates, some got straight A's, held down more than one major, graduated early and even had teachers let them teach the class when they had to leave; or even were a outstanding graduate of infantry school offered a immediate promotion. Not every ones idea of homework is the same, and picking out the right info crucial. And listening to those more experienced...well something many people are not so good at. EGO; even a inmate I teach to do anything in construction trades has one; its being Humble that's hard. Me I am just guy blessed to have work and a nice car who tries to help others because I do care. EGO though it gets in the way of so many men and their development into more, or they are still awaiting their turn to be humbled. There is something about almost loosing your life over and over that's very humbling you cannot teach but shows as others choose to follow you not the other guy. Be wise my friends.

[Chris49066SS]

Originally Posted by acammer

THIS!!! VVT is not something to give up just cause. Especially if you're staying on the stock stall, you want to really maximize the bottom end, and VVT will certainly help you there.

Agree.

Also agree, GPI is top notch. Just give them a call instead of trying to PM, they are busy for good reason. They did my SS4 cam and did a great job.

[christianchevell]

The thing about converters is too high and your making heat also and I would say for a daily as just with old school chevys for a daily lower stall 3000 or actually 2500 or less better for daily, and frankly big whoppee someone drove a car once from one state to another that was cammed...LOL

how about driving a fleet of vehicles over hundreds of thousands of miles for decades....yup me, sold three build chevys when I divorced my last wife... Theres always more info out there, research more and ask others but if your minds set in stone why ask for opinions.....you state in your first post; you are thinking of a future with Forced Induction....and therefore desire input specifically on the two cams but also wonder if they are good for FI..the answer no, not like a cam meant for FI, may be fine for some spray as in most aftermarket cams but boost and a regular performance cam and its overlaps and durations and LSA usually means dialing it down to not make too much boost and dealing with the stock already high compression its going to be low boost already on top of not being forged....Just some brutal honesty.


You want some honesty some day, try a Email to this guy I use and someday he will most likely get back to you, though we all age and working 6 days a week sometimes more gets old as does bending over engines...… And yup I am in there a couple places...https://www.facebook.com/Wongs-Perfo...-115667950915/

And yes when hanging around just waiting for a retune or something I was amazed and annoyed at how many people called; and he talked with on his head set with while working or walked in while I was just trying to get my stuff worked on......to talk wanting something or opinion or were so out there..... hell last time, I went to check tune, had to wait for Corvette someone a reputable mechanic put a blower on..new vette, Tommy gained him like 150 HP and torque over tune it came in with, and he dyno tuned it ina hour or two and I watched the parade of people come and go waiting for my retune check and well...here a guy so lost he wants a nice engine for low $$$ etc... in a rolling turn etc, and here comes a guy with a vette and Mcleod spend clutch clanging like crap from chatter constantly every 30 seconds of so.....and I am like telling him man that sounds like crap...compare it to my monster WTF....I personally would have been too embarrassed to drive his noise mobile clanging like its going to blow ...anyway....

[pyroguy]

Thank you for the responses. I have been reading and considering each of them and today I talked to the shop where I will be having the work on my car done and I did discuss with them GPI cams as so many of you have insisted on them. They said that they do a number of them and a number of BTR cams, still surprised that not many of these shops do much with TSP cams, but it is what it is. I am likely still staying with the BTR cam simply because they said that the two are very similar in power levels, quality, longevity, and driveability. The only extra thing I'm having to decide between is do I want to go with the NA cam that will provide more power now anticipating an eventual forced induction addition that won't gain as much, or go with a PD cam planning on adding a LSA blower one day limiting what I get now but gaining more later. Either of the two paths will be a stage 3 setup. I know a stage 4 would give me more performance, but this isn't a full on race car. It is a weekend/occasional vacation driver that will see some "spirited activity" on occasion so driveability is a big concern.

[Chris49066SS]

Yeah from the sounds of what your intentions are, you definitely wouldnt wanna go Stage 4. Drivability is radically different. To each their own, though. Being in Missouri, GPI is so close! You're lucky, its a 6 hour drive for me

[christianchevell]

I would just say for a last recommendation talk to a shop that does custom cams like cammotion , ( KIP );and tell them you would like a FI friendly stage three type cam with a eye on the future or a possibility more likely to not go FI and Listen, the guys have been making cams in the Bayou for a Long, long time for other shops you should know the names of....IMO do what I do talk to the Horse that Brung yah not the guy that last rode it... one makes them... one uses them...LOL