08-02-2016, 10:59 AM | #15 |
Drives: 2019 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bastrop, TX
Posts: 438
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Brake fade is not "complete brake failure". Having a rotor explode or a piston seal failure would fall under the category of "complete brake failure".
You got brake fade because you weren't using an appropriate compound, and you didn't take the basic steps advised by the manual to get more air to the brakes. You should really do both. |
08-02-2016, 09:13 PM | #16 |
Drives: 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Bay Area CA
Posts: 30
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Thanks for all the feedback. To respond to some of the points:
1) I intentionally didn't change anything as per manual and went out in that hot temp with full stock setup because I wanted to discover what is the limit of the stock system if I were to push it on the street in the setup how I drive it every day. 2) Ultimately I don't want to use anything "track specific". I'm one of those guys who wants to come to track, drive, and leave, without changing anything. I dislike the idea of having some slicks and different cooling when you're out on the track. I want my car to handle the same regardless of track or street - I don't want to learn 2 different driving modes. Just a personal preference I guess. Especially I hate the idea of these brake ducts that "expose the brakes to the elements". There's a ton of sand and debris flying around the track; it's the last place I want to expose my brakes. 3) However, for my next track day, I will certainly put in higher temp fluid and will swap out the pads for something higher temp. We'll see how far that gets me without brake ducts. 4) When I say "experienced complete break failure" what I meant is that when I rolled out to parking lot in 1st gear which would go less than 5 mph, I couldn't stop at that 5 mph using brakes - they did nothing; I ended up resorting to the parking break to stop the car. 5) This picture probably does have me breaking into a turn 6) is 2:08 a good time? I think many cars run less than 2 minutes there. I could've easily done less than 2 minutes with working brakes. I set that 2:08 time in the first 3 laps of the day where I overheated the brakes. It was the first time I ever drove this car on the track, and while I braked aggressively, I by no means pushed the car to the limit. I was just exploring. Plus traction control and a passenger. After that, the rest of the day I set 2:10 time on 90% of laps using almost engine braking exclusively (and a little excessive sideways action, which was fun for my passenger . I actually enjoyed purposefully not using the brakes as it felt like go karting where I have to focus on carrying maximum speed through the turns. There was a last gen Corvette Z06 in the same group who I kept passing and it felt like I was cruising, while he was trying so hard, almost flying off the track on every corner. I don't have much experience on track, maybe have been total of 10 times on 3-4 different tracks. I do have a lot of experience on the street though (in a safe manner of course). 7) Interesting conclusion to this story - yesterday my car rolled backwards in parking lot and hit another car. I had it parked on incline with only the parking brake set (didn't put it in gear, from now on I will). It engaged and held the car for some time, but then simply released. The damage is minor - just some scratches on rear bumper, but could've been much worse. I wonder if this is related to what I described in #4. Regards |
08-02-2016, 09:25 PM | #17 |
Drives: Car Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Place
Posts: 3,361
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On point number 4. On the parking brake usage. Did you leave that engaged long? If so, you'll need to check for warping. If your brakes got so hot they faded to that extent, any sort or prolonged brake pressure while not moving can cause a warp.
Not always, but something to look out for if you got that hot. And yes, that could be what made your ebrake let loose. |
08-02-2016, 09:58 PM | #18 |
Drives: 16' Camaro E-Force SS Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Morgan Hill, Ca
Posts: 836
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Lol, this thread is hilarious.
Anyone used the stock brakes, with dot 4 fluid and brake cool ducts on the track? Does it make the stock setup usable for lapping? Or do you still get fade? I'd love to avoid having to get track pads for a track day or two per year. |
08-02-2016, 10:06 PM | #19 |
Drives: Car Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Place
Posts: 3,361
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Yes, I did exactly that. See my Road America thread.
Motul RBF 600, stock pads and rotors, track vents in. Went all weekend. The front pads were done end of the weekend. But they held all the way until then. |
08-02-2016, 10:23 PM | #20 |
Drives: 16' Camaro E-Force SS Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Morgan Hill, Ca
Posts: 836
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Sweet. I'm OK going through pads but don't want to be swapping rotors and pads after each event.
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08-02-2016, 11:52 PM | #21 |
Drives: 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Bay Area CA
Posts: 30
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08-03-2016, 12:40 AM | #22 |
Drives: 2019 Camaro 1LE Shock Candy Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Garage
Posts: 1,757
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Great Adventure
Great adventure, the track time, brakes fading and to cap it off with an accident. All serious, would have loved to have been there. Your adventure just need a little more of a story when you where driving. No beer cans rolling in the back seat? Kind of a cannon ball story, where is Burt Now a day's????
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LT4 1.7 Supercharger snout ported & Meth
103 Katech TB, KATECH Custom Heads, DSX In-line fuel TSP Headers, Spec P Super Twin Clutch, TSP EL C7 CAM Diamond Piston & Manley Rods, Roto Fab Big Gulp BTR Push Rods,LS7 Lifters, ARP, FI Chiller, Kirkey Seats SJM Line Lock, Hurst Pistol Grip. 747/739 RWHP street tune - 821/794 RWHP track tune 101 octane. 2014 Mini Cooper countryman S All4 M6 daily driver |
08-03-2016, 07:39 AM | #23 | |
Drives: 2016 1SS Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: DC
Posts: 927
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Quote:
If you are already spending your time installing the brake deflectors it won't take you any longer to swap the rotor (you have to take it off anyway). Same with taking off the caliper. So....the only investment is to buy a set of track pads and rotors that will last about 7-10 track days (rotor should last 10-15 days). Compromise (at your own risk) : Buy just a front set of Carbotech XP8 (not 10) for the front + a set of front rotors. With the XP8 front and stock in the rear you will probobly have good balance (in theory- I did not try it yet).
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1SS, Black, Black Wheels, A8, MRC, NPP
Last edited by mbar; 08-03-2016 at 09:20 AM. |
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08-03-2016, 08:58 AM | #24 | |
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 6,990
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Quote:
Yup, "brake" vs "break" again . . . sure, it's obvious what you meant. And equally apparent that you don't care enough about how it looks to the people who would help you ... to get it right. Not sugar-coated but intended helpfully. Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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08-03-2016, 12:49 PM | #25 | |
Drives: 2012 Camaro RS 2LT 6spd man Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dickinson, Texas
Posts: 535
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Like I said, I still have my V6 brakes with the fluid change and still brakes fine. It's your experience that determines when you should brake around certain areas on the track. I very rarely use my brakes for most corners and usually just coast and modulate the throttle. The biggest usage is after a long straight to slow down for the next corner. never in a turn. sometimes this can cause the front end to push. If you have to brake in a corner then you probably are braking too late.
See my vid: From Texas world Speedway. |
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08-03-2016, 12:55 PM | #26 | |
Sure, why not?
Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS, Jeep JKU Rubicon Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: SE Mass
Posts: 1,538
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Quote:
And, for the love of all that is good and decent, it is BRAKE, not BREAK. When you use "Break" you sound like a moron, even if you are not one.
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This is that witty and clever statement that makes you chuckle.
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08-03-2016, 02:44 PM | #27 |
Drives: 2012 Camaro RS 2LT 6spd man Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dickinson, Texas
Posts: 535
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<tear> best laugh I had all day....LOL
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08-11-2016, 07:15 PM | #28 |
Drives: Varies Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
Posts: 2,182
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Joe@STILLEN here chiming in!
I have taken my 16 1SS 6spd manual with MRC and NPP to the track a few times now. I did all the recommended fluid changes and also installed the cooling system ducts that GM mandates you do before tracking the car. The rear diff fluid must be changed as well after break in before you track it, and also after every track day it is recommended. I have also changed the trans fluid out as well. Currently I am at about 14k miles on my SS, it also serves as a commuter for me sometimes. I used our AP RACING R3 fluid, which is the best fluid you can get before stepping into a AP race fluid. No change in pads, the factory pads are actually quite capable in my opinion. I have done ACS Roval and Infield so far and plan to go to many more of the local courses soon. I did not experience any brake fade at all, conditions were not quite as bad as yours were though as far as ambient temps. I do consider myself a pretty experienced driver and know how to manage a car with respect to braking zones and heat management. The SS with MRC is quite a capable performer. I am very impressed with it. On street tires, NITTO NT555G2 in 275/35 and 305/30 20s I was able to post a 2:03 flat at ACS ROVAL, my first time in this car at that track. ACS Infield with NITTO NT01s, 19s, square setup 285/30 all around, I was able to do a 1:19. This is with the car in FULL TRACK MODE with respect to the assist systems. I look forward to seeing more 6th gens in all iterations on the tracks across the nation and what people report back, maybe meet some local track heads in 6th gens. |
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