04-06-2022, 10:08 AM | #29 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 11,625
|
Why is it disheartening? You guys already have a way forward thanks to HHP, the tuning potential may not be as extensive as with the A8, but the TCM swap is a feasible avenue.
__________________
2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune 1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18 3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18 3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18 4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18 4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18 5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18 |
04-06-2022, 10:33 AM | #30 | |
Drives: '20 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Mile High
Posts: 3,565
|
Quote:
HHP tells me they have NOT found a way to delete 1st gear with a T87a / 2020+ A10. Instead, they say, "At the track we use manual mode and in the staging lane bump the paddle up to 2nd gear before the launch." I've tried their method and it doesn't work with my current TCM tune. Perhaps this is a feature in their T87a 2020+ A10 tunes. Posts here say this can be done with T87a <2020 A8/10. My current T87a tune still wants to occasionally try to shift to 1st at a stop, which causes some metal on metal, not good. My guess is that it's a valve body issue or shift / pressure solenoid issue, perhaps it drops pressure too fast, which might be adjustable. I'm not sure, but we'll work on it this year.
__________________
'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650. 100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O. 2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel. 4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes). 2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next. |
|
04-06-2022, 11:51 AM | #31 | ||
Petro-sexual
|
Quote:
Simply and directly - I suppose you could say that it might play nicer, but it won't be correct. It seems the consensus is VVE and VTT control torque, and if they aren't properly modeled, as your car makes more power over stock, the tranny won't behave in a manor that compensates (and compliments, to a lesser importance) for the additional torque. That could mean it doesn't apply enough pressure to keep the clutches engaged, enough such that it will slip and increase wear and damage the tranny, for example. The TCM, basically, looks to the torque the ECM is calculating (in the VVE/VTT models), and applies what it thinks is appropriate pressure to keep from slipping. I can see this in the SCANNER. But if you're increasing MAF air flow, the ECM will increase it's torque calculation, too, to an extend I guess, so I don't really know. There's a Member here, whom I won't call out, that I've read a lot of posts from HPTuners, and wish he might chime in, but from what I can tell, the current convention is if you have to recalibrate the MAF for more air flow, you might need to recalibrate the VVE. If you need to recalibrate the VVE, you might need to recalibrate the VTT. If you recalibrate the VTT (or any of the others I already mentioned), you might need to recalibrate the DRIVER DEMAND tables. If you don't balance all of these (and more), sometimes, you'll get throttle closure or timing will get pulled to reduce torque within the limits the ECM/TCM want to see. Basically - my point is that because Gen Vs are torque based systems, if the ECM isn't calculating torque correctly, you have to, essentially, "rape" the system to keep the throttle open and have commanded timing. I didn't really know it at the time (because I didn't have the TCM), but I was "raping" part of the system because of the torque limits. With the new TCM, my models are a lot closer to what they should be, and I'm not getting any throttle closures or timing reduction like I used to get. Maybe the simple combination I'm playing with doesn't require all this, due to it's simplicity, but I like to try to optimize what I have. I'm no expert, and just do this as a hobby, so I know I still have lots to learn. There are some Members here that contribute a great deal of knowledge over on HPTuners. I won't call them out, because that's not cool, but I'd really recommend searching over there, too. I've learned A LOT from people here, too. I'm still learning. Quote:
__________________
'20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs |
||
04-06-2022, 12:15 PM | #32 |
Drives: '20 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Mile High
Posts: 3,565
|
Continuing, the problem is that, if I start the burnout in 1st, shift to 2nd, roll forward and stop, it then shifts to 1st . . . sometimes. We're working on it.
__________________
'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650. 100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O. 2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel. 4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes). 2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next. |
04-06-2022, 01:10 PM | #33 |
Petro-sexual
|
Interesting...
__________________
'20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs |
04-07-2022, 09:15 AM | #34 | |
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,800
|
Quote:
For big power cars messaging these tables to help traction down low could be useful. For lightly modded stuff I would want it all disabled. On my brothers bolt-on A10 ZL1, since disabling trq vs gear limits, the boost now hits 12psi vs 6psi on the hit due to the throttle opening all the way. 4th gear roll now hurts the stock SC3 tires. Which are not going to be on the car much longer. It's getting forgelines and a set of triple8 toyos. No need to do much with VVE or VTT on lightly modded stuff. Once you change the airflow dynamics of the engine(heads/cam/compression) then VVE should be addressed. I like to blend about +10% into the VTT to firm up the shifts and make the trans a little more responsive. I know some despise MAF only tunes but they work fine on the gen 5 platform for most applications. Most don't realize that GM disables dynamic airflow and above 4k rpm anyway for PE mode. If the MAF ever failed the ECM would default to Reduced Power Mode anyway and pull a lot of torque unless your tuner went into the driver demand table and matched the RPM mode to the other drive modes which I wouldn't do.
__________________
2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA |
|
04-17-2022, 08:44 AM | #35 |
Drives: '20 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Mile High
Posts: 3,565
|
Solution: It will shift to 1st gear in Auto. So, I launch in Auto and shoot for pulling into Manual between 4500-5000 rpm. Admittedly, it's accelerating so fast in first that it will be difficult to hit the same rpm consistently, but... it can be done
__________________
'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650. 100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O. 2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel. 4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes). 2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next. Last edited by JSH; 04-17-2022 at 02:00 PM. |
07-26-2022, 08:01 AM | #36 |
Petro-sexual
|
07.26.22 - UPDATE:
I learned what happens when you don't disable the code you are required to when you do this swap: You get a bunch of weird values from the transmission gear PID for what seems like 9th and 10th gears. There are more than 4-or-so-codes, though, during these shifts and in these gears, so I wonder if TCC has anything to do with them, too. Remember to disable the code, lol. The car seemed to behave like usual, but I noticed the weird values, and remembered during my tinkering, I didn't turn-off the code. Oopsy...
__________________
'20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs |
07-26-2022, 08:40 AM | #37 | |
Drives: '20 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Mile High
Posts: 3,565
|
Quote:
__________________
'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650. 100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O. 2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel. 4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes). 2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next. |
|
07-26-2022, 09:30 AM | #38 |
Petro-sexual
|
Really? Do you know why (I'm sorry if that sounds stupid - I'm honestly asking)? Have you tried to download the stock tune and start over from there?
__________________
'20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs |
07-26-2022, 10:10 AM | #39 |
Account Suspended
Drives: 21 ZL1 Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: South East
Posts: 662
|
I've got my HHP T87a sitting on the shelf waiting for the rest of my parts to show up so I can get everything done at once. 21 A10 here.
I have powertech performance here in Tampa doing the install and tuning. Their tuner is very familiar with Chuck/HHP and how to tune these. There is also a document that Chuck sends with the TCM that has all the codes you need to disable. Let me know if you guys need to see that sheet. |
07-26-2022, 10:28 AM | #40 | |
Drives: '20 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Mile High
Posts: 3,565
|
Quote:
__________________
'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650. 100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O. 2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel. 4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes). 2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next. |
|
07-26-2022, 10:57 AM | #41 |
Account Suspended
Drives: 21 ZL1 Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: South East
Posts: 662
|
|
07-26-2022, 12:05 PM | #42 |
Drives: '20 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Mile High
Posts: 3,565
|
__________________
'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650. 100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O. 2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel. 4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes). 2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next. |
|
|
Post Reply
|
|
|