Really Confused after driving SS Hot wheels and ZL1

[Jims Mongoose]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

With a drive-by-wire throttle, the actual throttle opening and its rate of opening do not have to match what you're doing with your right foot. The Mustangs seem to have rather aggressive throttle tip-in response. To the point where some very experienced autocrossers have found it to be too aggressive for easy driving at that activity.

This is a case where the throttle opening can be more than you wanted down at the small throttle openings, and is harder to manage because the resolution is poor. By illustration with completely made-up numbers, when you thought/felt that you were asking for the throttles to go from 5% to 10% open, the computer changed that to be from 5% to 25% and gave you 20% throttle for only 5% pedal movement. It's a fairly common "trick" in lower powered cars to make them feel more responsive and powerful than they really are (I'm talking more about cars at the grocery-getter level here, where the customer wants the car to feel "peppy" even if it isn't flat-out powerful).

A slow tip-in response (where say, 5% to 10% pedal gets you 5% to 8% throttle) will feel "sluggish" unless you know what's going on and tromp down a little harder than you might otherwise. But it's easier to drive smoothly when you're stuck in slow-moving traffic that refuses to maintain a steady speed.

I suspect that differences in corporate philosophies and standards exist and are involved here. An aftermarket tune is not so limited (but may be too responsive for some driving situations requiring fine throttle modulation). There may even be some PCM "learning" of the way you drive involved that would likely be different.

Differences in all the other things - tire diameter, axle gearing, transmission gear ratios, car weight, and quite a few smaller things not mentioned - all play a part.


Give the 1LE serious consideration, just be aware that it is a manual transmission only option (meaning also that you won't be dealing with AFM).


Norm

Wow, Norm, thanks for excellent primer on throttle response.

I believe if nothing else this thread has coalesced a great deal of knowledge. I know it has helped me out.
I am in fact going to drive a 1LE on Saturday. I just may trade up from my 2LT.

One question what do you mean i wont' be dealing with AFM(what is that?)

Jim

[colemanvoice]

Originally Posted by 11fastss

a catch can is what this thread needs to be thrown in

:ran t:

[Norm Peterson]

Active Fuel Management

Read this.


Norm

[102SS]

Originally Posted by Jims Mongoose

Wow, Norm, thanks for excellent primer on throttle response.

I believe if nothing else this thread has coalesced a great deal of knowledge. I know it has helped me out.
I am in fact going to drive a 1LE on Saturday. I just may trade up from my 2LT.

One question what do you mean i wont' be dealing with AFM(what is that?)

Jim

Active Fuel Management all the V8 A6 cars get it,it shuts down 4 cylinders under light loads and cruise conditions.

FWIW the 2014 Vette gets it on all models.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by 11fastss

a catch can is what Post #8 of this thread needs to be thrown in

Fixed.


Norm

[toesuf94]

http://www.chevrolet.com/cars/2013-c...ipcode%3D85266

Here is a 6 speed 1LE 2 SS in your neighborhood.

[Jims Mongoose]

Thanks to all for all the help on this thread.

I don't think a thread can ever stay pure, and everyone of us has our own ideas and desires when they read a thread. I think for the most part we have all tried to stick to the topic with slight detours that hurt no one.

I will read Norms post on AFM as soon as I can, but again thanks to all.

I have heard from more than one person that says the 1LE is more responsive, I will give you my road test results as soon as I'm done. The cool part about it as follows. After the test drives I'm going to a Camaro club meet at the Pavillions in Arizona. Will discuss what I observed with some real knowledgeable people and report back

Thanks to toesuf94 for the 1LE locator.
Thanks to Norm for the AFM stuff and thread support
Thanks to Colemanvoice for the thread support
Thanks to 102SS for additional AFM info.

To 11fastSS We still like you. LOL

Jim

[Jims Mongoose]

Originally Posted by Jims Mongoose

Thanks again 2ndchance for the quick response. I am off hunting of one of the above. I am going to try to drive and SS and 1LE side by side to see if there is a difference; lag, percieved power, handling etc.

I am gotting hot to trot now.

Jim

I promised I would get back to you after driving the SS and the 1LE back to back, both sticks, both 2SS(not that the model matters, maybe a little weight.)Me and my son had drivent the hot wheels Camaro SS. then we drove the 1LE.

Well I'm not hijacking my own thread. This thread as been about lag and unresponiveness on new Camaros.

THE 1 LE IS NOT UNRESPONSIVE. It's freakin awesome.

Sorry for the caps, It feels like a totally different car than the SS. I don't know if they have a different ramp built into ECU, or if the 1LE's have better LS3's as some have suspected. GM did something. It was not broken in, it was new and it felt like a 426 horsepower car. I can only imagine what it might feel like when broken in, or with a tune.

Oh my God, i want it. This also had the Dual mode exhaust, I don't know why this is not more popular. It is a great addition and NO it was not the noise that made it seem quicker.

This is definetly a subject for more discussion.

Jim

[102SS]

Maybe the 1LE was treated to premium fuel,plus it has 3.73's.

My 2010 felt slower than my LS1 TA stock but it wasn't.

The 2010 13.3 at 106 on a 2.1 60ft

The 99 TA 13.7 at 103 on a 2.0 60ft

[tainoxl]

Ther is also torque management built in from GM. A tune can fix that. But these cars do have a bit of lag when you floor it. Def not greatest throttle response

[Jims Mongoose]

Originally Posted by 102SS

Maybe the 1LE was treated to premium fuel,plus it has 3.73's.

My 2010 felt slower than my LS1 TA stock but it wasn't.

The 2010 13.3 at 106 on a 2.1 60ft

The 99 TA 13.7 at 103 on a 2.0 60ft

I read back in this thread and as many including tainoxl above have stated it is probably a combinatin of torque management(though we don't have a definite on whether the automatic and manual have this and is the same on both) tip- to toe response as Norm above has said and AFM. That all being said the 1LE had something different than the standard SS. It felt like a lot more fun, it was freakin awesome (I'm repeating myself here). GM has done something different to that car. Now I know it has a better fuel delivery system, but if the AFM limits it then thats not it.

One thing not making the difference at this dealership was the gas. I asked them and all SS and 1LE's get the same 91 octane gas.

Also one other correction I believe to the above quote, the 1LE has 3.91 gears versus the SS stick of 3.45, but thats not the difference as I stated before, because the overall ratios in first and second are very close with the 1Le having a very slightly higher ratio in first and the SS a decent advantage in second gear. Still in both gears the 1LE was or seemed much quicker. I took them both through one gear change from first to second.

I think it responded quicker and felt like it pulled a lot better. Maybe a tune on the SS would make it feel like an untuned 1LE, I don' know.
Or maybe a tuned 1LE would feel incredible.

Are there enough dyno tests of tuned and untuned SS and 1LEs to see if there is a difference there. That would not, I believe answer if the tip to toe thing is different.

Thanks again to all
Jim

If anyone can think of a good way to start a poll( I don't know how to dot that) then please do it.

[Camper]

you have to remember that octane plays a large role in this scenario. Dealers often just throw in the cheapest gas..

[Jims Mongoose]

Originally Posted by Camper

you have to remember that octane plays a large role in this scenario. Dealers often just throw in the cheapest gas..

That is why I said that I know both cars had the 91 Octane gas. I was careful about that.

Jim