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Old 04-09-2021, 09:00 AM   #29
SS 310H55A
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanRubin View Post
Yes, it is on me, owned more cars than you can count on two hands, and
never had issues. I am no one special, GOD does not keep the fasteners in,
and it's not MAGIC. I don't will them to stay in, nor to I pray to any deity
for them to stay in. It's not ADVISE either, it is what I do, and have been
doing for 30+ years. Why does it work for me if you CANNOT reuse TTY
bolts? Man, I must be one of the luckiest people on the planet...

I will only use TTY bolts up to three times, four if I cannot get them right
away. I cannot afford to have my WORK vehicle out of commission for a DAY!
I lose $195 if I can't run. SO, you bet I am reusing them. I am not paying
for a rental, that pays for 9+ of your $5 bolts... Plus, I can get them at
cost at the shop, the 1-2 days a week I work there.


Red 271, just a dot. I still never have to heat anything to get the bolts
back out. They say you need to heat to 500 degrees to free RED, but I
never had to. I may use blue on slide pin bolts. But for the most part,
if I can remember, RED. I didn't use any the last service, that was about
a month ago, replaced the rear knuckles.

I don't care what anyone writes, I have never, EVER had anything come
loose, or even back out. No one will ever convince me that you CANNOT
reuse TTY bolts; except for ENGINE or TRANS internals. Suspension and
brakes? No sweat, paranoia, or even a hint of worry.

If you do any Yahoo or Google of "reusing tty bolts" 80% or more is all about
engine, not suspension, brakes, and chassis stuff. You can't have someone
say NEVER, when I do ALL THE TIME, without failure.

The suspension bolts you’re referring to originally are not TTY bolts. They’re standard bolts that use angular torque. So while you may think you’ve been reusing TTY bolts, you’re completely misunderstanding the difference between TTY and angular torque.
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:18 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by hesster View Post
With a small fortune of $$ spent on Mods, like I'm gonna scrimp on buying new hardware? Anyone who has tightened a caliper bolt, or better yet a strut bolt knows how much force it takes and that these are in fact probably stretching. I actually measured some caliper bolts to see if they had stretched. Yes - they did.
Lots 'O opinions on this subject, but how about someone weighing in on a fastener that actually broke?
This is a great previous thread
https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showt...=364972&page=3
I saw your original post and eyeballed new vs old and didn't see a difference--maybe there's a good amount of variation in original length between bolts. 90 degrees of rotation is a half-millimeter of stretch; after digging through my brain and engineersedge, that's enough stretch to send the threaded section into plastic deformation.
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Old 04-09-2021, 01:08 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevint View Post
I saw your original post and eyeballed new vs old and didn't see a difference--maybe there's a good amount of variation in original length between bolts. 90 degrees of rotation is a half-millimeter of stretch; after digging through my brain and engineersedge, that's enough stretch to send the threaded section into plastic deformation.
Are you saying the 90° is ‘over yielding’ the bolt?

So what we’ve seen in this thread is, people that use the bolts over, people that would never dream of using the bolts over, people who the torque the bolts to something slightly greater than 30 foot pounds and a 230LB powerlifter who couldn’t even achieve the 90° turn.

My rotors and pads should be here today or Monday, I’m gonna have to make some kind of decision and I’m leaning towards about a 30 to 45° turn beyond the initial torque setting and depending on the Loctite to do the rest. Feel free to pick that one apart!
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Old 04-09-2021, 01:51 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo View Post
Are you saying the 90° is ‘over yielding’ the bolt?

So what we’ve seen in this thread is, people that use the bolts over, people that would never dream of using the bolts over, people who the torque the bolts to something slightly greater than 30 foot pounds and a 230LB powerlifter who couldn’t even achieve the 90° turn.

My rotors and pads should be here today or Monday, I’m gonna have to make some kind of decision and I’m leaning towards about a 30 to 45° turn beyond the initial torque setting and depending on the Loctite to do the rest. Feel free to pick that one apart!
Based on the one curve I saw, 90 degrees stretches the bolt 0.08% based on total underhead length--way past the linear elastic region and yield point.

The factory bolts come with dry yellow loctite. Depending on how lubricious the loctite is, you may be able to achieve the required 90 degrees of torque. I didn't torque mine to spec when I replaced them, but I will definitely check them when I put my summer tires on this weekend.
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Old 04-09-2021, 02:00 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo View Post
Feel free to pick that one apart!
Do what you want.

At this point, you know all of the information regarding the bolts and you are going to do whatever you want to do when changing your brakes.

I personally spent the $30 and got new bolts from the dealer, and torqued to spec (to the best of my ability).
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Old 04-09-2021, 02:24 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ChibiBlackSheep View Post
Do what you want.

At this point, you know all of the information regarding the bolts and you are going to do whatever you want to do when changing your brakes.

I personally spent the $30 and got new bolts from the dealer, and torqued to spec (to the best of my ability).
New bolts were the first thing I bought. And the first to show up. I’ll be using wet loctite. I’m not a 230lb power lifter, I’m more a 220LB power eater. I’ll pull ‘em as far as I can.
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Old 04-09-2021, 03:01 PM   #35
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There should be yellow loctite from the factory, shouldn't need to add anything else.
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Old 04-09-2021, 04:13 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo View Post
New bolts were the first thing I bought. And the first to show up. I’ll be using wet loctite. I’m not a 230lb power lifter, I’m more a 220LB power eater. I’ll pull ‘em as far as I can.

Getting the proper torque is not difficult and you don’t need to be a weight lifter to do it. All you need is leverage. Use a breaker bar and a cheater bar. Get a long piece of thick metal pipe from Home Depot and slip it over your breaker bar. The longer it is, the more leverage you have to get it torqued down properly.
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Old 04-09-2021, 04:59 PM   #37
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Screaming Chicken bolts, no loctite. And, yes, I’m familiar with a moment arm. I’ll send pics of it all when done and put out a 3-state warning to steer clear of my Camaro with the compromised brake system! Seriously, thanks for all the input, gents.
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Old 04-09-2021, 05:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo View Post
Ok, I’ve read the plethora of info on TTY bolts (or not) and the torque spec “+ 90°“ but...my tech question is this: Has anyone ever calculated what that additional 90 degree turn adds to the overall torque rating?

In other words, if you torque to the initial 30-40 ft lbs, (conflicting info here too) then how many more ft-lbs was added to the final torque spec with the additional 90° turn? I saw one video that said 194 ft lbs. I wonder about that.

Make any sense?
That's a good question.

Torque is an indirect measurement of what you are trying to achieve when tightening a bolt, namely axial load. That torque is affected by fastener friction, which can vary a lot.

The direct measurement of bolt elongation would be the best measurement bu is impractical in most situations. Degrees of turning the bolt would be next, and a torque wrench measurement would be the furthest removed from determining that the target axial load is achieved.

I spent my engineering career on precision instruments, where fastener loads are critical. Your best bet here is to follow the assembly instructions and don't worry about the torque wrench when you have instructions for a more accurate method.
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Old 04-09-2021, 08:27 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by SS 310H55A View Post
Getting the proper torque is not difficult and you don’t need to be a weight lifter to do it. All you need is leverage. Use a breaker bar and a cheater bar. Get a long piece of thick metal pipe from Home Depot and slip it over your breaker bar. The longer it is, the more leverage you have to get it torqued down properly.
Idk this all seems way to excessive for a set of caliper bolts.
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Old 04-10-2021, 06:58 PM   #40
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Well, best laid plans...AutoZone had a loaner tool program so I checked out 30-200 ft lb torque wrench. On the 2nd pull on the first wheel, the wrench exploded (@33ft lbs) and the guts went flying. I found all the parts but the screws that hold it together. Bum wrench.

So after three pages, it got the ‘calibrated elbow’ treatment after all on the two fronts because they only had one wrench. It was all about the new rotors anyway.
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Old 04-11-2021, 08:49 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Silveradoss573 View Post
Idk this all seems way to excessive for a set of caliper bolts.
I agree 100%. I've never replaced caliper bolts and never will. I always reuse them and tighten them until they are tight. ( I have replaced the slide bolts) I have never had a problem ever and no I don't use loctite.
I have been working on cars over 40 years. Never one broken or seized bolt issue.
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