FLEX FUEL SENSORS HOWS AND WHYS

[JANNETTYRACING]

I have been getting a lot of questions regarding adding a flex fuel sensor for use with E-85.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation regarding this so I am starting this thread to hopefully educate and put to rest some of the misinformation.

Some how people are getting the impression you can purchase and install a sensor and your good to go, NOT the case at all.

Q. Can I add a flex fuel sensor to my car?

A. Yes, you can but it will do nothing without custom tuning to activate it.

Q. OK after the flex fuel sensor can I burn E-85?

A. NO, you do not have large enough injectors or fuel pump to supply the 30% more fuel volume needed.

Q. What is required to burn E-85 in my supercharged Camaro?

A. That will depend on RWHP target, Example, for 500 RWHP you could get away with ID-850s, a ZL-1 fuel pump, Fuel pump control module, JMS voltage booster, a Flex fuel sensor, and custom tuning.

A2. For most modified Camaros above 500 RWHP it will require a complete Squash or Fore, twin pump, return system, with PTFE lines and fittings, ID-1300 injectors, and a one of our Flex Fuel sensor kits at a cost of around 4200.00 in parts and 10 hours of labor and of coarse custom tuning to make it all work.

Q. How much more power an I expect from E-85?

A. This is a loaded question, again it will depend on how extensive your mods are now and how badly you need more octane.

A2. Example 1, 770 RWHP 93 oct combo makes 850 RWHP on E-74, total 80 RWHP gain

A3. Example 2, 630 RWHP 93 oct combo makes 685 RWHP on E-68, total 55 RWHP gain

Q. What is E-85, E74, E68?

A. It is the percentage of Ethanol vs Gasoline in the mixture, when you buy E-85 you don't always get E-85 you often get E-74.

Q. How do you know this?

A. The Flex fuel sensor reports this to the computer and can be logged or read through the OBDii port.

Q. With a complete flex fuel conversion can I switch between 93 and E-85

A. Yes you can when set up correctly the computer will compensate for the Stoich value and timing requirements.

Q. What needs to be done to the tune to enable Flex fuel capability?

A. A full custom tune must be made on the dyno first on 93 then enable the flex fuel sensor, the flex fuel timing and fueling tables must be set up as they are currently all Zeros.

I will be happy to add to this thread with anyone's additional questions, these are the most common I have been getting.

Ted.

[bct10985]

Would you gain anything by switching to e85 if you already run meth?

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by bct10985

Would you gain anything by switching to e85 if you already run meth?

Yes sir.

[silvio207col]

What other injectors can you recommend other than IDs to run e85. FIC, Deatschwerks,??

[Jeff_SS]

Another way to test if the e85 you're getting is really e85

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by silvio207col

What other injectors can you recommend other than IDs to run e85. FIC, Deatschwerks,??

I would not recommend anything other than ID, I only recommend what I would run in my own car.

Ted.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Jeff_SS

Another way to test if the e85 you're getting is really e85

Those Kits are cool but it is so nice to see it in real time once the sensor is installed.

Ted.

[Jeff_SS]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Those Kits are cool but it is so nice to see it in real time once the sensor is installed.

Ted.

Advantage to this is I can know what I'm putting in my car, before I put it in my car.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Jeff_SS

Advantage to this is I can know what I'm putting in my car, before I put it in my car.

Only if you completely drain your tank, you can't account for what the mixture will be once added to what is already in the tank.

And you would have to change your tune every time the mixture changes.

The Flex fuel sensor always knows the exact percentage and can be displayed on a scan gauge or logging software.

Ted.

[dreksnot]

One thing Ted did not mention were the benefits of running E85 over petro. He can chime in but here's what I "know." You can run more timing (for more power) with less risk of detonation (the 104'ish octane). "They" say E85 runs cooler, but I'm not sure what that means.

I was dead set against E85, figuring way more work just to run it. One of my tuners was dead set on convincing me, so here's a quick story. Performed a basline dyno run with 91. Drained gas tank. Refilled with E85 (80%), redynoed. No shit, 50RWHP gain. The tune in the car had not been modified yet to run E85 (albeit it was already tuned to run my forced induction setup) and I presume the HP gain was from the increased octane and the optimized FI tune already in the car. I guess I settled for E85, the 6* added timing and gobs of HP gain. Plus the car in the garage doesn't smell like a wet rag saturated with gasoline, instead, it's a sweet smell, almost pleasant (race fuel!). Engine does run smoother, also presumed the increase octane rating.

Your ethanol content will vary station to station. Around my neck of the woods, most E85 is 70%. There are a few stations that have 80% so I fill up there to run at the drag strip. From what I hear, and I do wish Ted would comment, is that anything 60% plus runs about the same. Is that true?

[ttshovel]

Originally Posted by silvio207col

What other injectors can you recommend other than IDs to run e85. FIC, Deatschwerks,??

Ill let you know shortly how my fic 1000s do with e85. Worst case scenario I have to buy bigger injectors. But i will most likely run a higher base pressure.

As for the blend. Around here it is seasonal as I'm sure it is in most of the U.S.

around here it is e70 right now, but normally switches back to e85 in april-may.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

One thing Ted did not mention were the benefits of running E85 over petro. He can chime in but here's what I "know." You can run more timing (for more power) with less risk of detonation (the 104'ish octane). "They" say E85 runs cooler, but I'm not sure what that means.

I was dead set against E85, figuring way more work just to run it. One of my tuners was dead set on convincing me, so here's a quick story. Performed a basline dyno run with 91. Drained gas tank. Refilled with E85 (80%), redynoed. No shit, 50RWHP gain. The tune in the car had not been modified yet to run E85 (albeit it was already tuned to run my forced induction setup) and I presume the HP gain was from the increased octane and the optimized FI tune already in the car. I guess I settled for E85, the 6* added timing and gobs of HP gain. Plus the car in the garage doesn't smell like a wet rag saturated with gasoline, instead, it's a sweet smell, almost pleasant (race fuel!). Engine does run smoother, also presumed the increase octane rating.

Your ethanol content will vary station to station. Around my neck of the woods, most E85 is 70%. There are a few stations that have 80% so I fill up there to run at the drag strip. From what I hear, and I do wish Ted would comment, is that anything 60% plus runs about the same. Is that true?

The ability to make more power has to do more with the ability to burn more fuel.

You can burn up to 30% more E-85 than you can gasoline in the same combustion process.

The ability to add more timing is not responsible for more power.

Ethanol burns slower than gasoline and has Higher Octane so it takes more time to get to peak cylinder pressure.

We adjust timing to move Peak cylinder pressure as close to 15 degrees AFTER top dead center to do the most work on the piston.

Best way I can explain it.

Ted.

[Jeff_SS]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Only if you completely drain your tank, you can't account for what the mixture will be once added to what is already in the tank.

And you would have to change your tune every time the mixture changes.

The Flex fuel sensor always knows the exact percentage and can be displayed on a scan gauge or logging software.

Ted.

Yeah I'm not arguing with you. I know how this works. I have a flex fuel setup going in. Twin pump Fore system..
I still like to know what I'm putting in my car, before I pump it in..

[Taco Time]

Ted,

Could you elaborate on the benefits (or cons) of adding meth to an e85 setup?

417 stroker, twin turbo, FORE triple pump, id1700s, e85 w/ flex fuel, and meth.


Also, since I'm doing flex fuel, but I plan to run e85 100% of the time I was told to only put 93 octane in the car for emergencies. Could you give me some more info on that?

Thanks!