[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I was agreeing with both of them and adding to it.

Aww, cr*p, you're right. I need more coffee. Or sleep, who knows

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Aww, cr*p, you're right. I need more coffee. Or sleep, who knows

Lol, well I could have worded it better.

[BlaqWhole]

The biggest issue with the GT500 will be consistency. That much is obvious from the quarter mile times we have been seeing. On one end there are kids who claim to have never been on a track before but managed to wrangle a 760 HP car to a 10.6. On the other hand there are plenty of experienced journalists who were in the mid 11s. That is almost an entire second difference. Ford claims 10.7 with a note that it requires a prepped track. So off a track it will likely struggle against most cars that have less power. I think we'll see similar mid 11s with other mag tests. Maybe an 11.2 or 11 flat. But it seems that the name of the game these days will be balance and control over dumping HP on an already overwhelmed setup. The fact that when magazines test these cars the ZL1 is always right there hanging with them despite the huge power gap tells the story about getting the power to the ground effectively and efficiently. Sure, Hellcats and Redeyes and GT500s might be faster on the track where the conditions favor them. But in every other situation the conditions will not be to their advantage.

Adding to this, I'd like to see how the CF GT500 would do against a GTR considering the price of both.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yes, definitely for sure. I already have a $5K deposit down on it.

I'm going with a 2LT Z51 with MRC and the front lift system. Black with Sky Cool Gray interior and transparent roof. GT1 seats are good enough for me. And the Bright Silver rims to top it off. Final price is $76K which is $71K when the deposit is applied. I am looking forward to it!!

The convertible is really cool. But adding it in would bring the price up way higher than I would want to spend on this trim level.

That is awesome!! I am looking forward to seeing pics when you take delivery, I would be excited too!!

[whiteboyblues2001]

Hey Blaq,

Have you seen the new MT H2H? ZL1 vs. Hellcat WB. Here's the link:

[rocket403]

I'll take the Hellcat every time

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by rocket403

I'll take the Hellcat every time

We know.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

That is awesome!! I am looking forward to seeing pics when you take delivery, I would be excited too!!

Thanks man. You guys will see definitely see the pics when I get it.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Hey Blaq,

Have you seen the new MT H2H? ZL1 vs. Hellcat WB. Here's the link:

Thanks for posting. I have not seen this one. It was a good vehicle. And I can vouch for them on most of their statements about both cars.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I think it can be relevant when comparing apples to apples. Typically what we’ve found is that when you’re dealing with NA engines, expect 65 - 75 hp/l for OHV and 75 - 100 hp/l for OHC (more for DOHC than SOHC). Comparing OHV NA Hemi’s to Small Blocks makes sense. A 5.7L Hemi is sort of meh...stumbling in at about 68 hp/l. An LT1 is on the high end of the curve at about 74 hp/l and a 6.4L Scat Pack is even better at 76.

By comparison, the 5.0L DOHC Coyote is in the range of normal for a DOHC. It comes in at 92 hp/l (96 for Bullitt) and that’s towards the high end of what you’d expect for a DOHC. Voodoo is right on the cutting edge at a fraction over 100 hp/l.

So, as has been pointed out, to get to the same power levels an OHV will have larger displacement. But it could very well still be physically smaller than a DOHC of same power level.

When you start adding boosting, all bets are off, but you should typically start at @ 100 hp/l for OHV and 120 hp/l for OHC and go up from there.

Comparing specific output of NA OHV to boosted DOHC is like comparing cherries to watermelons. Both tasty, but that’s pretty much where the similarities end

Just my thoughts on this.

I think these guys were just saying that while hp/l is a good metric to compare when comparing similar designs and engineering feata, it definately paints a picture that may not be correct to the uninformed as far as actual engine size and mass goes vs displacement.

Wanted to add the lt2 as probably the best stock horsepower per liter ohv engine, just a fraction under 80 hp/l.

Also it's not fair to mention when compared to these mass produced engines from Ford (the voodoo not so mass produced) and Chevy but the Ferrari 6.5 dohc makes a whopping 121 hp/l and the Lambo 6.5 118 hp/l.

[rocket403]

Originally Posted by hotlap

We know.

[Baldilocks01SS]

Originally Posted by rocket403

I'll take the Hellcat every time

Well, we can't all have good taste. So, it's all yours.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by mlee

Yes, he prefaced his statement with "of course this is the Ring". Then went on to say he just thought it was interesting which I happen to agree with. You really need to knock the chip off your shoulder and pay attention to who you're quoting. He said nothing derogatory that warranted this kind of response.

Thanks - my ignore feature worked perfectly in this case

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I think it can be relevant when comparing apples to apples. Typically what we’ve found is that when you’re dealing with NA engines, expect 65 - 75 hp/l for OHV and 75 - 100 hp/l for OHC (more for DOHC than SOHC). Comparing OHV NA Hemi’s to Small Blocks makes sense. A 5.7L Hemi is sort of meh...stumbling in at about 68 hp/l. An LT1 is on the high end of the curve at about 74 hp/l and a 6.4L Scat Pack is even better at 76.

By comparison, the 5.0L DOHC Coyote is in the range of normal for a DOHC. It comes in at 92 hp/l (96 for Bullitt) and that’s towards the high end of what you’d expect for a DOHC. Voodoo is right on the cutting edge at a fraction over 100 hp/l.

So, as has been pointed out, to get to the same power levels an OHV will have larger displacement. But it could very well still be physically smaller than a DOHC of same power level.

When you start adding boosting, all bets are off, but you should typically start at @ 100 hp/l for OHV and 120 hp/l for OHC and go up from there.

Comparing specific output of NA OHV to boosted DOHC is like comparing cherries to watermelons. Both tasty, but that’s pretty much where the similarities end

Just my thoughts on this.

I think this is one side of the argument while not mentioning torque. GM typically builds torquey engines, Ford more HP. GM does so in a smaller and lighter package that can be placed lower a vehicle due to physical size. Having the range of displacement is a bonus.

Lots of people love to compare peak HP numbers, but ignore power under the curve.

When GM was replacing the LT1s in the 90's, they had a DOHC engine and the LS. They did a blindfold test with exec's, and the decision was unanimous - LS got the nod because of the way it drove...more torque and more "pull".

This couldn't more clear than comparing anything by GM to the Voodoo. Lots of great reviews on the Voodoo sound and HP in the high RPM range. Also lots of complaints about lack of power down low and how drivability suffers, including launching from a stop.

Edit: Agreed that HP/L is the one of the stupidest arguments made...how many races did your HP/L advantage win?

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The biggest issue with the GT500 will be consistency. That much is obvious from the quarter mile times we have been seeing. On one end there are kids who claim to have never been on a track before but managed to wrangle a 760 HP car to a 10.6. On the other hand there are plenty of experienced journalists who were in the mid 11s. That is almost an entire second difference. Ford claims 10.7 with a note that it requires a prepped track. So off a track it will likely struggle against most cars that have less power. I think we'll see similar mid 11s with other mag tests. Maybe an 11.2 or 11 flat. But it seems that the name of the game these days will be balance and control over dumping HP on an already overwhelmed setup. The fact that when magazines test these cars the ZL1 is always right there hanging with them despite the huge power gap tells the story about getting the power to the ground effectively and efficiently. Sure, Hellcats and Redeyes and GT500s might be faster on the track where the conditions favor them. But in every other situation the conditions will not be to their advantage.

Adding to this, I'd like to see how the CF GT500 would do against a GTR considering the price of both.

Absolutely going to be the case. And the base C8 will be beating it to 60 mph and 100 mph with ease and consistency on the street and on average prepped tracks in average DA conditions. Even better the C8 very consistently will be running 11.2 and 11.1 in the 1/4 right there with the mighty GT500 that is also dynoing closer to 780 horses.

[bradmo9]

BlaqWhole Why are you so caught up on what a car can do on a unprepped surface. I like to play on the street just as much as anyone. But in 25 years of driving I can count on one hand how many stop light runs I've had 0-60 or so on. Highway rolls are where 99% of racing on the street happens.

Drag strip 1/4 times and mph is what we should compare too. With that you have to compare DA. You keep bringing up las vegas times for GT500. Those times were run in 3000 plus DA. The cars were never turned off and the drivers only had 2 runs with a set launch rpm that ford set of 1200 rpm.

The GT 500 is a 10.6 car as of right now, the first car delivered ran that with 1000 miles on the clock. I'm sure the time will get lower.

The ZL1 is 10.9 car, very impressive for the way it handles and hp it has.

The C8 will likely be a high 10 sec car on the drag strip. Which is damn impressive.

One thing to remember as the cars of today get faster and faster. Going from a 10.9 to 10.6 takes more power than 11.9 to 11.6. S