[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by fastball

Problem is old fashioned cruise control was vacuum-mechanical. It held the throttle on the carburetor or throttle body with vacuum from the engine. As you hit a hill vacuum would go down as engine speed went down and that would actuate the cruise to open the throttle more. Unless you got a vacuum leak that was a $.50 fix vacuum Cruise was as reliable as the sun coming up every morning.

All of today’s cars use electronic cruise that goes through the ECM, even if it doesn’t have radar.

The Fiat-Chrysler CC problem was specifically a software issue that is being fixed via re-flash. Basically there was one or more situations not properly accounted for or error-trapped in the programming. It's even possible that the situation(s) were completely overlooked.

I'm pretty sure that "old-fashioned" was used in the sense that cruise control has been around for decades.


Norm

[Inthepasture]

Originally Posted by Strange Flavor

I was driving down the highway in a brand new Tahoe rental and it hit the brakes very aggressively for absolutely no reason. There was no one in front of us for as far as i could see so I have no clue why it did it. Not a fan of this feature.

Are you sure you didn't spill scalding hot coffee on your lap during this very dangerous encounter?

[dfwcowboy]

My Tahoe has the adaptive cruise control along with all the safety features that come with it. It’s not a perfect system, but overall it’s a very worthwhile thing to have. As far as turning it on and off, some of the features are always active while others require the cruise to be active. There’s no fallback to traditional cruise control. When the cruise is on, it maintains an adjustable distance between the car in front of you.

As far as the nanny aspect of it, there is the potential to produce less attentive drivers, but those who think they can “multitask” while driving are doing it anyway so I’d much rather have someone like that behind me with this technology than without.

As far as how I use it, I don’t think there’s any question it enhances my safety. The adaptive cruise alone means I don’t have to spend as much time thinking about following distance and can focus more on everyone else who is trying to kill me.

I don’t care how good of a driver you are, you will never be able to devote 100% of your attention to forward driving. Glancing at the rear view, changing music, adjusting climate controls, and dozens of other things devote attention from that task. This system never takes a brake and it always backs you up regardless of your driving skills.

This sort of technology is only going to go in one direction and like it or not, the act of driving is going to get more and more automated. The end result is inevitably going to be increases in safety and more efficient traffic flow.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by dfwcowboy

As far as the nanny aspect of it, there is the potential to produce less attentive drivers, but those who think they can “multitask” while driving are doing it anyway so I’d much rather have someone like that behind me with this technology than without.

It's always easier to wish that only other people had to have potentially intrusive systems that could be distracting in their own right.

I don’t care how good of a driver you are, you will never be able to devote 100% of your attention to forward driving. Glancing at the rear view, changing music, adjusting climate controls, and dozens of other things devote attention from that task. This system never takes a break and it always backs you up regardless of your driving skills.

As long as these systems continue to have bugs and simply get things wrong, they aren't going to be 100% either.

Never mind situations where they might be calibrated too conservatively for a given situation or specific individual.


FWIW, I wouldn't want to use adaptive cruise control specifically because it would be teaching me to become less attentive and slower to respond to changing circumstances during a real emergency or at any time when not using it. Don't use CC at all anyway.


Norm

[dfwcowboy]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

As long as these systems continue to have bugs and simply get things wrong, they aren't going to be 100% either.

No human will ever be 100% either. So the question is and should be is the automation better than the human? The answer to that question today is certainly debatable, but inevitably as the technology improves it will not be.

You already turn over some of your control to automation with things like ABS and Stabilitrack. Both of those technologies had their naysayers when they were introduced. Now they are ubiquitous. So will it be with automatic braking.

[90503]

The problem with all these driver assist items seems to be they are perceived to be smarter than what they are...."Lane Change Assist" for example...works great most of the time, but then go drive a car that doesn't have it!...You realize that you don't really look over your shoulder all the time like LCA tells you to even when "using" it...No little orange thingy in the mirror??...no problem, change lanes....oops!, I forgot, this car doesn't have it!....My point is it is really easy to get acclimated to these things, these "assists"....when they aren't there, a whole different world...You actually must pay attention to your driving....

[fastball]

Originally Posted by 90503

The problem with all these driver assist items seems to be they are perceived to be smarter than what they are...."Lane Change Assist" for example...works great most of the time, but then go drive a car that doesn't have it!...You realize that you don't really look over your shoulder all the time like LCA tells you to even when "using" it...No little orange thingy in the mirror??...no problem, change lanes....oops!, I forgot, this car doesn't have it!....My point is it is really easy to get acclimated to these things, these "assists"....when they aren't there, a whole different world...You actually must pay attention to your driving....

That's why I remain adamant to continue driving only cars with a manual transmission. It forces you to be alert at all times no matter what kind of automated ninny nannies and beeps, cameras, and blinkers the car has.

[Lafourche1]

I know that I am in the minority, but I want all and any safety systems on my automobiles and everyone else's too. It is the future that we are approaching. Autonomous vehicles will be common. Less attentive drivers are common. Anything that helps this situation, I am in favor of.

Most of us on this board are automobile enthusiasts. A fair percentage have and do engage in HPDE advanced training on a fairly regular basis. We are experienced at advanced car control. We understand, speed, braking distances and at the limits handling. We drive our cars every time we crank them up. We are the minority. For the other 99.X% (I truly believe we are less than 1% of the drivers), these aids help make the road a safer place for everyone.

It isn't that the commercial is promoting inattentive driving. It is that the commercial is a factual representation that most of us here are in denial about.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by dfwcowboy

You already turn over some of your control to automation with things like ABS and Stabilitrack. Both of those technologies had their naysayers when they were introduced. Now they are ubiquitous. So will it be with automatic braking.

Ubiquitous perhaps, but they still get a few things wrong. Some calibrations are better than others.


If it matters, I lost the ABS on the Maxima in my sig for a while, with no downsides experienced other than a couple of cases of rear tire lockup when I was trying pretty hard to see what it took to make that happen. Nice to have some idea how things are going to work when the chips are down, and for this topic here it applies to cars that never had ABS, cars that always did and never lost it, and ABS cars that did lose it. Wheel sensors do die from time to time, and not conveniently as you pass the dealership or your go-to repair shop.

I've lost ABS in the Mustang on the track. Turned out that the best two lap times and three of the best four that day happened with the ABS out. Though admittedly, lap times with ABS were a small fraction of a second more consistent. I have datalogs and a spreadsheet analysis to support this.


Norm

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

I know that I am in the minority, but I want all and any safety systems on my automobiles and everyone else's too. It is the future that we are approaching. Autonomous vehicles will be common. Less attentive drivers are common. Anything that helps this situation, I am in favor of.

Most of us on this board are automobile enthusiasts. A fair percentage have and do engage in HPDE advanced training on a fairly regular basis. We are experienced at advanced car control. We understand, speed, braking distances and at the limits handling. We drive our cars every time we crank them up. We are the minority. For the other 99.X% (I truly believe we are less than 1% of the drivers), these aids help make the road a safer place for everyone.

It isn't that the commercial is promoting inattentive driving. It is that the commercial is a factual representation that most of us here are in denial about.

An automated car cannot be an enthusiast's car.

If it were up to me a '66 GTO would still be readily available. With no power steering or brakes. A 4 speed. And tri-carbs. For as much as I love everything about my Camaro there's nothing - NOTHING - like driving an old car that is noisy, smells, and makes you do everything. You are actually completely engaged in every aspect of operation by sheer necessity, because the car don't move if you don't do everything. You are one with the car.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

I know that I am in the minority, but I want all and any safety systems on my automobiles and everyone else's too. It is the future that we are approaching. Autonomous vehicles will be common. Less attentive drivers are common. Anything that helps this situation, I am in favor of.

Most of us on this board are automobile enthusiasts. A fair percentage have and do engage in HPDE advanced training on a fairly regular basis. We are experienced at advanced car control. We understand, speed, braking distances and at the limits handling. We drive our cars every time we crank them up. We are the minority. For the other 99.X% (I truly believe we are less than 1% of the drivers), these aids help make the road a safer place for everyone.

I'm guessing that you've never encountered any situation where an available nanny intervened too soon or improperly. There's certainly negative value in the subsequent 'WTF just happened' moment for the driver who's paying much attention to his car's behavior. Been there.

It's likely not politically correct thinking to want such systems be on other peoples' cars given that they have to be available at all, but it's hard to avoid with decades of driving under my belt before any of them was available.

It isn't that the commercials are intentionally promoting inattentive driving. It is that the commercial is a factual representation that most of us here are in denial about.

Fixed the way I hope those advertisements are intended. I'd hate to think that the advertisers might be looking at driver distraction made safer as time they could be using to advertise more stuff to us (but I bet that some of them are thinking exactly that).


Norm

[90503]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Fixed the way I hope those advertisements are intended. I'd hate to think that the advertisers might be looking at driver distraction made safer as time they could be using to advertise more stuff to us (but I bet that some of them are thinking exactly that).


Norm

Unfortunately this is the real goal. Car makers are tripping over themselves to be the preferred car for Smart Phone users who care nothing about their fellow drivers or safety, but will buy whichever car affords them the most convenience and accommodations so they can selfishly stay on their social media and smartphones the maximum amount of time, even behind the wheel....


The dirty little secret is safety is paid lip service so the driver can do less and less actual driving....Smart Phones are dictating the design of cars, now and in the future. They realize "drivers" will never put those things down, so the march is on to placate their dangerous and selfish addiction to social media and hand held Smart Phones...

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'm guessing that you've never encountered any situation where an available nanny intervened too soon or improperly. There's certainly negative value in the subsequent 'WTF just happened' moment for the driver who's paying much attention to his car's behavior. Been there.

Actually, I have, too. I've had the braking kick in on our MKT, flashing red lights and all, for little reason that I've seen. It has happened once or twice in our ownership, some 24,000 miles. Fairly rare.

It's likely not politically correct thinking to want such systems be on other peoples' cars given that they have to be available at all, but it's hard to avoid with decades of driving under my belt before any of them was available.

Norm, I have well over a decade with an AARP card next to my NASA membership card. I really prefer ABS braking in real life and on the track. I am glad that I have an airbag or 6 or 10. I don't want to use them, but I am glad they are there if they are needed.

In my younger years, I had to back a Halliburton pump truck onto a barge using a 9' ramp. No nannies involved. I like to have the sensors and camera when I backup my ZL1 to park it.

Fixed the way I hope those advertisements are intended. I'd hate to think that the advertisers might be looking at driver distraction made safer as time they could be using to advertise more stuff to us (but I bet that some of them are thinking exactly that).

Norm

Reality would tend to lend itself to the last marketing strategy.

[dfwcowboy]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'm guessing that you've never encountered any situation where an available nanny intervened too soon or improperly. There's certainly negative value in the subsequent 'WTF just happened' moment for the driver who's paying much attention to his car's behavior. Been there.

It happens from time to time in my Tahoe. It doesn't take long before you adapt to it. If my Tahoe starts braking when I don't want it to, I can push the fuel pedal to override the action.