they killed the thread/so here is another

[All-Or-Nothing]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

No there is not.
If a compliant ride is what they are after then they should have used an independent rear.
The Ford engineers as I said worked a miracle on the rear set up, however there are many many many far better designs.
The caddy is 4200 lbs.

There is definately more room for tweaking the Ford live axle set-up. Try browsing for some of the aftermarket suspension parts and you will see there is more room.

[All-Or-Nothing]

The SS is faster and the GT turns better. No thread will change that.

[rodimus prime]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

The SS is faster and the GT turns better. No thread will change that.

Bro. I gotta ask.

You posted earlier that you dont like the design of new Camaro. Fine

You then said that you are not going to buy or have plans to buy a new Camaro. Fine

You drive a BMW 6 series. Fine

You then said you plan to buy a new Mustang. Fine.

You try to convince another member to buy a mustang. Fine.

Why do you hang out here then? What good is it to you here that you post here. Better yet, what good are you to these boards from your posts, be it telling people to get a mustang and what not?

Im just wondering bro. I would think there are places that are more productive to your needs.

To keep it on topic, yes the Stang turns better. But add some sway bars and some springs and see what happens.

Why would you consider a mustang ( a vehicle thats slower than a Camaro) if you are already driving the ultimate driving machine?

[All-Or-Nothing]

Originally Posted by rodimus prime

Bro. I gotta ask.

You posted earlier that you dont like the design of new Camaro. Fine

You then said that you are not going to buy or have plans to buy a new Camaro. Fine

You drive a BMW 6 series. Fine

You then said you plan to buy a new Mustang. Fine.

You try to convince another member to buy a mustang. Fine.

Why do you hang out here then? What good is it to you here that you post here. Better yet, what good are you to these boards from your posts, be it telling people to get a mustang and what not?

Im just wondering bro. I would think there are places that are more productive to your needs.

To keep it on topic, yes the Stang turns better. But add some sway bars and some springs and see what happens.

Why would you consider a mustang ( a vehicle thats slower than a Camaro) if you are already driving the ultimate driving machine?

First I'm in Iraq and I'm bored.

Next I've owned 2 Camaros (spelling), Several Mustangs, a few exotics and the rest were just "get me to work cars". Still have a Mustang also.

It just was funny that the OP was so bent out of shape. The Camaro didn't win in a few categories and there is an uproar. How many people sitting at the local hangout walk up and say "Wanna race down Dead Man's curve". Both cars handle equally in everyday situations. Both cars will handle just as well with the average driver speeding down some twisty roads. You just have to learn your car. We all have to admit that magazine results may annoy us but real world is another thing. These magazines will take a Suburban to a track and complain that it doesn't feel aggressive enough.

True I prefer the look of the Mustang over the Camaro but that's a whole nother story.

Who's to say i might not pick up another Camaro pending a redesign. May happen but not in the immediate future. I do respect the power LS engines make even with pushrods.

Last, I haven't been dogging anyone or the Camaro. Nothing wrong with correcting minor discrepancies. Go ahead and check my posts.


My screenname isn't filled with numbers--hint, hint so I don't think anyone hates me yet.

[211269]

Originally Posted by Dan3

Slightly random, but some people in other threads of this nature seem to not understand what Leguna Seca is. It is a 2.238mile track that encompasses all the turn types that you would encounter in most road or road track situations. It does have several good straight-aways that would give a car with power like the Camaro an edge over smaller powered engines, but no real elevation changes.

Now, some of these imports just might beat us down the Tail of the Dragon. I would love to see someone do a speed run down this with a Camaro, but I don't have the balls to try it. Did it on my motorcycle once, and that was a fun run.

Right. Like I said in the other thread. Laguna is mostly straights with some mild turns and cars with huge engines have the advantage, even if they arent great track cars. Put the SS up against the Evo, STi and 370Z here and see what happens. I would be very interested to see that...

[syr74]

Originally Posted by joelster

FWIW, on a DEAD smooth track where they test their lateral G's and their slalom course runs, a live axle is excellent. An independent rear can be made just as good though. However go onto REAL ROADS IN THE USA and go around a sharp corner that has a bump or 2 in it and see how well the live axle handles it. It will be upset and skip out if you take the corner hard, because as soon as 1 wheel reacts to the bump the other wheel will also react. With an independent rear even if one wheel is hitting a bump the other wheel will stay glued to the pavement allowing you to corner MUCH harder on an uneven surface than you could with a live axle.

In theory that sounds great, but theory doesn't always translate into the real world quite so neatly. Both Car and Driver and Automobile complained that Camaro ride quality was inferior to the Mustang even on rough road surfaces.

The problem? Obviously the difference here is damping. The same problem which creates severe understeer in the Chevy explains why rough surface ride quality and handling also suffer. The rear springs are just too soft which makes the front suspension work way too hard creating understeer (although as I stated earlier the staggered tires aren't helping here either) and those same soft rear springs almost certainly create a situation where the rear suspension becomes unsettled over rough surfaces moving too much, and here is the real key, for too long. To be fair these are almost certainly not the only issues, but I really doubt the situation is much more complicated. As I stated earlier this is an easy fix, lets see what GM does about it.

[Rummel Autosport]

Originally Posted by 211269

Right. Like I said in the other thread. Laguna is mostly straights with some mild turns and cars with huge engines have the advantage, even if they arent great track cars. Put the SS up against the Evo, STi and 370Z here and see what happens. I would be very interested to see that...

The have already run the Camaro at the ring, look at the times.

Also justa side note about the live rear axle argument, did anyone else notice that the mustang was the ONLY car above the Camaro that had that type of axle setup. I didn't look at many of the others below, but I am pretty sure from what I saw that most or almost all of the fast cars on the list were IRS.
Not to mention, I dont really think the GT500 vs. SS is fair anyway. I think there is more even matchups that should be used to really get a clearer picture.

[rodimus prime]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

First I'm in Iraq and I'm bored.

Next I've owned 2 Camaros (spelling), Several Mustangs, a few exotics and the rest were just "get me to work cars". Still have a Mustang also.

It just was funny that the OP was so bent out of shape. The Camaro didn't win in a few categories and there is an uproar. How many people sitting at the local hangout walk up and say "Wanna race down Dead Man's curve". Both cars handle equally in everyday situations. Both cars will handle just as well with the average driver speeding down some twisty roads. You just have to learn your car. We all have to admit that magazine results may annoy us but real world is another thing. These magazines will take a Suburban to a track and complain that it doesn't feel aggressive enough.

True I prefer the look of the Mustang over the Camaro but that's a whole nother story.

Who's to say i might not pick up another Camaro pending a redesign. May happen but not in the immediate future. I do respect the power LS engines make even with pushrods.

Last, I haven't been dogging anyone or the Camaro. Nothing wrong with correcting minor discrepancies. Go ahead and check my posts.


My screenname isn't filled with numbers--hint, hint so I don't think anyone hates me yet.

Fair enough.

[Hesh]

The times are published for most of those cars. Only one not found is the 370. Most were driven by a driver very familiar with the track Horst von Saurma. The evo went around in 8:11 and the STi in 8:08. Now John Heinricy I believe drove a preproduction Camaro around the ring at 8:20. No slouch but not in the same catagory as Saurma. So what time could we see if there wa a professional driver behind the wheel in a 99% of the bugs worked out of it model. Jan Magnussen took another 4 seconds off the ZR1 time from Johns time. So with a professional driver behind the wheel of the Camaro you could easily see another 5 or 6 seconds dropped off that time. Thats only a few seconds behind the cars you seem to think are just so much better...

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by Hesh

The times are published for most of those cars. Only one not found is the 370. Most were driven by a driver very familiar with the track Horst von Saurma. The evo went around in 8:11 and the STi in 8:08. Now John Heinricy I believe drove a preproduction Camaro around the ring at 8:20. No slouch but not in the same catagory as Saurma. So what time could we see if there wa a professional driver behind the wheel in a 99% of the bugs worked out of it model. Jan Magnussen took another 4 seconds off the ZR1 time from Johns time. So with a professional driver behind the wheel of the Camaro you could easily see another 5 or 6 seconds dropped off that time. Thats only a few seconds behind the cars you seem to think are just so much better...

[211269]

Originally Posted by Hesh

The times are published for most of those cars. Only one not found is the 370. Most were driven by a driver very familiar with the track Horst von Saurma. The evo went around in 8:11 and the STi in 8:08. Now John Heinricy I believe drove a preproduction Camaro around the ring at 8:20. No slouch but not in the same catagory as Saurma. So what time could we see if there wa a professional driver behind the wheel in a 99% of the bugs worked out of it model. Jan Magnussen took another 4 seconds off the ZR1 time from Johns time. So with a professional driver behind the wheel of the Camaro you could easily see another 5 or 6 seconds dropped off that time. Thats only a few seconds behind the cars you seem to think are just so much better...

Dude, its not what I seem to think, its what I know. Having owned an Evo and now a Camaro I am telling you there is little to compare. The Evo slices and dices around corners and thru twisties and the Camaro feels more like navigating a big boat and the body roll is scary most the time. Feels like if you push it you are going to flip it. Thats with the V6 engine too, cant imagine it with the V8, probably get the back end way too loose. I am no pro driver but I do know how to drive pretty damn well.

One is a do it all track car and one is a straight line car that can handle turns ok. I didnt buy the camaro to go track racing it, I knew better than that. I am just saying that people making it out to be some great handling car are very mistaken, its decent. People who havnt even driven it yet have no clue. Best thing they can do is go drive a Charger and just picture it a little more cramped in the front (not as wide) and there ya go.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by 211269

Dude, its not what I seem to think, its what I know. Having owned an Evo and now a Camaro I am telling you there is little to compare. The Evo slices and dices around corners and thru twisties and the Camaro feels more like navigating a big boat and the body roll is scary most the time. Feels like if you push it you are going to flip it. Thats with the V6 engine too, cant imagine it with the V8, probably get the back end way too loose. I am no pro driver but I do know how to drive pretty damn well.

One is a do it all track car and one is a straight line car that can handle turns ok. I didnt buy the camaro to go track racing it, I knew better than that. I am just saying that people making it out to be some great handling car are very mistaken, its decent. People who havnt even driven it yet have no clue. Best thing they can do is go drive a Charger and just picture it a little more cramped in the front (not as wide) and there ya go.

People that have never driven the Camaro have no clue.... Ok if you say so. Its called research. Just because you are not comfortable pushing the car to its limits does not mean anything to the rest of us. I dont see anyone around here saying that the Camaro is a great handling car... So I am not sure what you are arguing about. If you are seriously as unhappy with the car as you seem... do what you got to do bro. Your negativity in almost all of your posts is not going un noticed and pretty soon people are just going to stop listening to you all together.

One is a AWD car.... one is a RWD car of course they are going to feel different!

[ironpeddler]

There is so much more that you can do with a live axle, just check out Grigggs racing, they are a top notch company dealing with the live rear axles. The potential on the live rear axle is no-where near tapped out coming out of the Ford factory stock. But as someone said before in this thread, take that live rear axle out on some bumpy, curvy roads and give it some gas. That rear-end is going to get away from you so fast it's not even funny.

[211269]

Originally Posted by shnomac77

Just because you are not comfortable pushing the car to its limits does not mean anything to the rest of us. I dont see anyone around here saying that the Camaro is a great handling carr... So I am not sure what you are arguing about.

Werent you the one that started posting the times from Laguna Seca after it was brought up by several who OWN the car that it doesnt handle the best? Why yes it was. What was your point then if not to try and argue it handles great? Again, stop being such a blind fanboy and think this is such a great car cause you read it in a magazine.