HOW MUCH IS AND WAS TOO MUCH?

[2NASSTY]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

I think you are looking for a bullet proof build with no worries. Me too!

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

Hah. That's it.

LOL. When we find that combo, let's keep it to ourselves for a while!

[CAM....ZL1]

Thank you all for your input, this is great info and exactly what I was looking for. I hope I can make mine last a while, I don't plan on pushing it any farther maybe a inter chiller some time. If it don't make it I will build it back stronger. It will last as long as it last. Some of the builds seem to fair better than others for what ever reason.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

Upgraded fuel rails and entire fuel system upgrades are great insurance when needed. We pushed the LSA hard on low boost with great results on the factory block.

I believe 775-800 rwhp is the limit back to the original OP ask.

Again, just sharing my experience at that level. Very happy with results and where I'm at now pushing 850 rwhp with current build.

Good luck with your build also.

First off, sorry to read about your misfortune. But at least you have an even better build now!! And yea I would say the same thing...about 750 with E85/meth is my comfort zone for these engines. Anyway, good luck with the new build!!

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

As stated before, with or without Meth, 600 rwhp on factory pump. +700 with aftermarket fuel systems.

I’m no expert by any means.

I never saw someone put up a more conservative number than I do, lol!! I would say 650 on pump gas and that is me being safe, lol!! 600 is a bit low. But we all have our preferences. And it isn't like I really trust many tuners out there anyway.

Originally Posted by CAM....ZL1

Thank you all for your input, this is great info and exactly what I was looking for. I hope I can make mine last a while, I don't plan on pushing it any farther maybe a inter chiller some time. If it don't make it I will build it back stronger. It will last as long as it last. Some of the builds seem to fair better than others for what ever reason.

Lots of success to you with your setup. I would recommend you trust in Jannetty and go by what he says. There are lots of good tuners and shops out there and he is one of them. But there are a lot more bad shops and tuners out there too. Looking forward to seeing your completed setup!!

[XxshadowdawgxX]

Originally Posted by CAM....ZL1

Just like the title states. Please be honest about your builds. How many members have pushed their cars past their limits and lost their engine from to much power, for what ever reason. It would be nice to know from owners that have experienced this to maybe help others from going too far. I am aware that it can happen at any power level, but the harder its pushed the higher the risk. This also would be a great question for the v guys also. I know there are many high hp builds on here some with complete builds, were those builds because something let loose or to prevent it from happening. I am tuning for e as we speak and will be north of 700 rwhp. How long will it last who knows. Nothing last forever. Builders, tuners, owners, everyone is welcome and encouraged to chime in. Thank You All For Your Knowledge and input.

P.S. Every time I add more parts, power, my wife tells me I'm gonna blow it up, then what. I told her of course I already have a forged bottom end picked out. Lol

Sincerely,
CAM....ZL1

I was at 700rwhp for a little over 22,000 miles with no issue, good parts and TUNING is the key. The new build will be finished up this week, goal is over 1300+rwhp as a street car. So I'll let you know shortly what is too much lol.

P.S: Nothing ever went wrong, just decided I wanted more power.

[Ajax2112]

Originally Posted by CAM....ZL1

Yes it's always in the tune. JRE is also tuning mine, and I do trust him. Coincidentially I have almost the identical build as you, except my super cats are gutted. I have 1lb less boost, probably due to the gutted cats, and now fore dual pump, I'd 1300's, new lsa fuel rails and the rest of the e85 supporting mods. I am curious about lost engines due to over modifying or pushing it farther than it can handle. I do not think I have crossed that line yet, time will tell.

The tune is the key. Some guys are chasing peak Dyno numbers which may work for a race car but won't work on a daily driven car. The tune must be on the conservative side to account for variables in air pressure, temp, humidity etc. Racers will retune the car at the track to account for the current conditions and return it to a base tune at the next event and work from there as the day progresses.

Ted I say this with respect and no ill intentions. JRE and those that remote tune will use a CAN tune and tweak it slightly based on logs for each customer as each car will reponded differently to the same tune. That is why it is key that you log for several days and under different conditions. Summer vs winter will also affect the tune. I am willing to bet that he leaves a lot on the table as far as peak numbers because he is aiming for longevity and customer satisfaction.

Chasing a one size fits all horse power number is impossible as elevation, fuel abailabilty, weather conditions, seasonal humidity and seasonal differences all affect this.

We can take the same car with the same tune and Dyno it at several locations around the US and in most instances the dyno numbers will change substantially.

If all you care about are Dyno numbers I will sell you a 1200 hp 1100 tq dyno graph along with a bumper sticker and you can show it off to all of your friends they will never know if it's from you car or not.

If your racing and relie on as much power as possible, then you know that you will be rebuilding the motor on a regular basis and have the deep pockets to support it.

If you truly want reliability and longevity keep the car stock and enjoy it as is. The car makes plenty of power from the factory. If your modding it be prepared to rebuild it and enjoy the process.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Ajax2112

The tune is the key. Some guys are chasing peak Dyno numbers which may work for a race car but won't work on a daily driven car. The tune must be on the conservative side to account for variables in air pressure, temp, humidity etc. Racers will retune the car at the track to account for the current conditions and return it to a base tune at the next event and work from there as the day progresses.

Ted I say this with respect and no ill intentions. JRE and those that remote tune will use a CAN tune and tweak it slightly based on logs for each customer as each car will reponded differently to the same tune. That is why it is key that you log for several days and under different conditions. Summer vs winter will also affect the tune. I am willing to bet that he leaves a lot on the table as far as peak numbers because he is aiming for longevity and customer satisfaction.

Chasing a one size fits all horse power number is impossible as elevation, fuel abailabilty, weather conditions, seasonal humidity and seasonal differences all affect this.

We can take the same car with the same tune and Dyno it at several locations around the US and in most instances the dyno numbers will change substantially.

If all you care about are Dyno numbers I will sell you a 1200 hp 1100 tq dyno graph along with a bumper sticker and you can show it off to all of your friends they will never know if it's from you car or not.

If your racing and relie on as much power as possible, then you know that you will be rebuilding the motor on a regular basis and have the deep pockets to support it.

If you truly want reliability and longevity keep the car stock and enjoy it as is. The car makes plenty of power from the factory. If your modding it be prepared to rebuild it and enjoy the process.

LOL, I guess you have to define CAN tune, this is not something I do.

My definition of CAN Tune is, a preloaded tune that comes in over the counter tuners for the average stock or CAI equipped car.

Each and every tune I write has to take in to account, every aftermarket part that is on the car and that take time depending on how many mods there are.

When writing a tune I draw from Vast Experience over my 32 year career, trust me nothing is canned, well unless you call my brain a can LOL.

All of the weather compensation is in tack and effective at keeping the car running well under any conditions and or elevation.

I don't leave much on the table, when you make an engine happy it runs well, will make great numbers and be fast at the track.

I never try and force an engine to do something it is not capable of doing, Just give it what it wants.

Yes dynos vary but not much more than 10% from my experience.

Real dynos have a calibratable strain gauge that actually measures torque and a laser beam for RPM signal so there is no mistake in HP like you get with Spark Rpm signals.

Ted.

[Ajax2112]

Thanks for explaining that Ted.

By CAN I should have stated tune file collection. If a car has A B C and D mods like one of your packages you have to have a tune that you use on every car. I got this from your explanation and info section on remote tuning although I am paraphrasing.

How does the tuning process work? You say “write”. Are you writing so sort of code? I would love to learn more about the process

Also what I meant by Dynoing a car at different locations had nothing to do with the DYNO. If you use the same DYNO and run a test at different times of the year or different elevations you will get different numbers.

Thanks.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by Ajax2112

Thanks for explaining that Ted.

By CAN I should have stated tune file collection. If a car has A B C and D mods like one your packages you have to have a tune that you use on every car.

How does the tuning process work? You say “write”. Are you writing so sort of code? I would love to learn more about the process

Also what I meant by Dynoing a car at different locations had nothing to do with the DYNO. If you use the same DYNO and run a test at different times of the year or different elevations you will get different numbers.

Thanks.

HPtuners has a forum and lots of info there. If you look at all the tables there it is mind boggling the things that can be changed, I'd say thousands of possible data entry blocks. I think you could search youtube for some overviews also "hptuner"
The computer does correct for temperature and density/altitude changes. Dyno's also have a correction factor for that. The operator can fudge the numbers by messing with those to make the hp number look bigger or their dyno reads high or low. If you don't like remote tuning, I got you. If you know a reliable tuner near everyone that won't burn a piston and ruin their motor from a bad tune let us all know, post a list so we will go local instead of email order from Janetty Racing or Dynosteve et al.
Any tune will leave some on the table unless the customer wants to risk blowing the engine for another 15hp.
I just uploaded Ted JRE tune and it runs good, I might have one adjustment for him to make after I put in my delete pipes and pulley and do more logs. An odd high fuel pressure after WOT decel that I wasn't expecting. The DSX flex fuel and tune were what I was hoping for in butt dyno tire spin gains.

[Ajax2112]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

"
The computer does correct for temperature and density/altitude changes. Dyno's also have a correction factor for that. The operator can fudge the numbers by messing with those to make the hp number look bigger or their dyno reads high or low. If you don't like remote tuning, I got you. If you know a reliable tuner near everyone that won't burn a piston and ruin their motor from a bad tune let us all know, post a list so we will go local instead of email order from Janetty Racing or Dynosteve et al.


Any tune will leave some on the table unless the customer wants to risk blowing the engine for another 15hp.

I have no problem with remote tuning what so ever. Finding a good tuner in all areas is very hard and these remote tuners make it easier and safer for us.

You have pretty much helped me with my earlier comment. DYNO numbers and what are safe peak numbers for these motors can not be easily defined.

I agree with you that any tune will leave some on the table.


How does SCT vary from hp tuners?

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Ajax2112

Thanks for explaining that Ted.

By CAN I should have stated tune file collection. If a car has A B C and D mods like one of your packages you have to have a tune that you use on every car. I got this from your explanation and info section on remote tuning although I am paraphrasing.

How does the tuning process work? You say “write”. Are you writing so sort of code? I would love to learn more about the process

Also what I meant by Dynoing a car at different locations had nothing to do with the DYNO. If you use the same DYNO and run a test at different times of the year or different elevations you will get different numbers.

Thanks.

Well if your ever in the area I will let you watch me write a tune, it will make your head spin.

We can dyno the same car 4 times a year and get the exact same number with the STD correction.

Yes the actual numbers will be better it better weather and worse in crappy hot humid weather, cars react like humans we need oxygen to make power.

Ted.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Ajax2112

I have no problem with remote tuning what so ever. Finding a good tuner in all areas is very hard and these remote tuners make it easier and safer for us.

You have pretty much helped me with my earlier comment. DYNO numbers and what are safe peak numbers for these motors can not be easily defined.

I agree with you that any tune will leave some on the table.


How does SCT vary from hp tuners?

Like I said earlier I make the engine happy, give it what it wants and honestly does not leave much on the table.

When you force an engine to make a number on the dyno it won't repeat that power on the track as a dyno only runs 6 seconds for example when your car runs 11 seconds on the track, different load and conditions.

The Street/track tuning provides the best results, I remote tune some of the fastest cars in the country, we currently hold the stock bottom end L99 record at 9.46 ET and that car has never been on a dyno and I have never laid a hand on the car, all tuning done from my desk right here in old CT.

Ted.

[Ajax2112]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Well if your ever in the area I will let you watch me write a tune, it will make your head spin.

We can dyno the same car 4 times a year and get the exact same number with the STD correction.

Yes the actual numbers will be better it better weather and worse in crappy hot humid weather, cars react like humans we need oxygen to make power.

Ted.

Thanks Ted.

That's what I was trying to point out. The OP was looking for a magic number. To many people buy parts based on other peoples DYNO numbers and on occasion some of them have their cars Dynoed and some make more and some make less with the exact parts list. Those who make less get very disappointed and look to have their cars retuned to achieve that magic number which becomes dangerous as some tuners will put the cars tune on the edge of explosion or even worse blow the motor while tuning it and blame it on a manufacturers defective parts.

I will definitely take you up on your offer. Thank you so much for the offer.

[Ajax2112]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Like I said earlier I make the engine happy, give it what it wants and honestly does not leave much on the table.

When you force an engine to make a number on the dyno it won't repeat that power on the track as a dyno only runs 6 seconds for example when your car runs 11 seconds on the track, different load and conditions.

The Street/track tuning provides the best results, I remote tune some of the fastest cars in the country, we currently hold the stock bottom end L99 record at 9.46 ET and that car has never been on a dyno and I have never laid a hand on the car, all tuning done from my desk right here in old CT.

Ted.

That is the most important point for new owners and those who are beginning their mod journey.

Tuning a car on the street / track will usually yield better results as the car is being tuned for its intended purpose. If you DYNO those cars some will make some amazing peak numbers and other will fall short of them. The key is the end result. A tuner can aim for peak numbers and the car will not be faster than a car with lower peak numbers as the lower peak numbered car would have a smoother curve and higher numbers along it.

[JB'sZL1]

Well, I'm no Pollyanna. For those that are: boo hoo.

It is virtually impossible to reach a modern car's potential without a good tune. And of course climate plays into that. And, of course, one vehicle can show different dyno numbers with like-kind mods...or even stock.

I like to read other owner's experiences with certain mods...especially if over the course of years. I don't want to be a guinea pig and burn a piston or throw a rod. Therein I hold the value of previous, tried and proven mods.