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Old 12-17-2018, 04:19 PM   #29
gtstorey

 
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Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat View Post
Hi there, opening up this all thread.

For those of you who added the Z/28 Suspension Kit to your SS w/o adding the front splitter and rear spoiler for added downforce who do you feel about that decision? I’m thinking of the suspension now and may the splitter/spoiler later.
I haven't added aero to mine but really like the upgraded suspension. Are you planning on tracking your car? If not will you ever get enough speed to get enough down force to make a difference?
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:30 PM   #30
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My home track, Pitt Race, in my opinion isn't one of those super high speed tracks. There is one corner where I'm carrying tons of speed, about 120mph. But looking at how many G's I'm pulling thru it, I'm well within the tire's limit of grip. And the car is stable thru it also.
The stock 1LE pulls barely 1g, right? I think that’s right. What are you pulling with the Z/28 kit?

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I like to let prospective Z/28 suspension owners understand the firmness of the springs and dampers. I do daily mine anytime in the summer when it is dry and warm enough. Yes, the Z setup is stiff. Our roads here in the Laurel Mountains of PA suck.\
I grew up there! Greensburg, Norvelt, Connelsville. Started skiing at Hidden Valley and Laurel Highlands back in 1976! Had relatives in Johnston and used go through there on the way to Clinton country for fishing. Hunted in the highlands too. I think it was there where I got my first deer.

California is very different. Funny story ... went to NASCAR at Sonoma Raceway and literally felt like I was back in PA again. The Silicon Valley is such a bubble in America.
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:36 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by gtstorey View Post
I haven't added aero to mine but really like the upgraded suspension. Are you planning on tracking your car? If not will you ever get enough speed to get enough down force to make a difference?
I definitely track the car. Having said that it’s been over a year since my last track day. I think my sig has a link to some of my track videos. Not that hot but fun! Last time I was tracking they asked me to leave the Intermediate group and go to the Advanced group b/c I was riding peoples’ tails too much. I have to say I’m not yet comfortable in the Advanced group. The notional idea of going to the Z/28 suspension kit would be to feel safer through the corners in Advanced.
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:38 PM   #32
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In hindsight, I think I'd have taken the next step up in the suspension department and installed something like the DSE / JRI kit, or an Ohlins, Motion Control, etc.
Hope this helps,
Yes, helps. And thank you. I do I have to research was DSE, JRI, Ohlins and Motor Control are.
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:29 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat View Post
The stock 1LE pulls barely 1g, right? I think that’s right. What are you pulling with the Z/28 kit?


x/
I grew up there! Greensburg, Norvelt, Connelsville. Started skiing at Hidden Valley and Laurel Highlands back in 1976! Had relatives in Johnston and used go through there on the way to Clinton country for fishing. Hunted in the highlands too. I think it was there where I got my first deer.

California is very different. Funny story ... went to NASCAR at Sonoma Raceway and literally felt like I was back in PA again. The Silicon Valley is such a bubble in America.
Ah, cool! Greensburg is about an hour from me. Do you still have family in Johnstown?
I use Harry's Lap Timer, its g meter is showing 1.2 G's. Sometimes I get a quick hit of 1.3, but I'm not sure how accurate it is. This is with the Z/28 springs/DSSV's, front and rear anti-roll bars on Forgeline GA1R 19x11/19x11.5 and 305 Goodyear 3R from the ZL1 1LE
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:39 PM   #34
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The DSE/JRI coilovers are the top, but carry the top price. Ohlins are a highly praised in other vehicles, but in the Gen 5 platform, they haven't found many takers. Their spring specs are higher than the Z springs. I had the RideTechs and liked them alot, but the Z setup is more track oriented.

I mentioned that one particular turn from Pitt Race. It's a big balls turn. A driver either goes thru it hard or they tread lightly and brake before it and carry less speed. After I saw the moderate G's i was carrying, I knew as long as I got the arc right, and used maintenance throttle to keep the rear tucked in, the car would be stable. Going thru it fast does shorten up the brake zone for the following tight right hander. In mentioning that corner, I was implying that a) the Z suspension is super stable and b) even though I'm carry big speed thru it, I don't really need anymore aero.
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:44 PM   #35
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:43 PM   #36
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Damn good driving, man. That big balls turn the one before the finish?
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Old 12-21-2018, 08:19 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by cdb95z28 View Post
The DSE/JRI coilovers are the top, but carry the top price. Ohlins are a highly praised in other vehicles, but in the Gen 5 platform, they haven't found many takers. Their spring specs are higher than the Z springs. I had the RideTechs and liked them alot, but the Z setup is more track oriented.

I mentioned that one particular turn from Pitt Race. It's a big balls turn. A driver either goes thru it hard or they tread lightly and brake before it and carry less speed. After I saw the moderate G's i was carrying, I knew as long as I got the arc right, and used maintenance throttle to keep the rear tucked in, the car would be stable. Going thru it fast does shorten up the brake zone for the following tight right hander. In mentioning that corner, I was implying that a) the Z suspension is super stable and b) even though I'm carry big speed thru it, I don't really need anymore aero.
Interesting. I should probably start a separate thread discussing suspension - the pros/cons and "vs" each other in outright performance.

I did like the OEM 1LE suspension - the front end does feel very good, but I didn't like how much it rolls, and has to "take set".

I did some stupid things without really thinking it through:
-Purchased a used set of Z/28 spring/multimatics
--Did not install these. Second thoughts hit hard because of the known high rebound setting which is of course non-adjustable, and the bumpy nature of most Texas tracks. Airborne tires are not gripping. Not gripping is losing momentum.
-Purchased a barely used Ridetech HQ coilovers.
--Installed these. At first I was rather enamored with the subtle lowering (I hate the 4x4 look of the gen 5 OEM) and the handling / grip was significantly improved. A lot of that improvement I would attribute to the more aggressive alignment (-2 up front).

I think the RT are a good entry/mid level for folks that want adjustable ride height. I was hoping for more with the fox shocks, but...anyway. I'm sure higher level fox will work better

I have to believe you when you say the Z/28 setup is a more track oriented setup.

I think I just want to go to the next level and for now I'm thinking of

-MCS (proven, no brainer) track+street, capable race only choice
-Ohlins R&T street+track. Following FusionofIdeas (forum member / Z/28 racer) who has made a switch to Ohlins R&T but with soem customization for racing (perhaps just higher spring rates with appropriate valving)

Obviously there are hardcore customizable race choices, with hardcore costs from several renowned shock companies.

I'm not going there. The most I am likely to do for 2019 some track days and some casual effort time trials. If I like what the car does this season, I want go a bit more hard core with it and turn into a low budget wheel to wheel and little more serious TT'er at club/regional level.

MCS seems like my choice
Ohlins maybe. R&T is a street setup so I'm not sure it makes sense, unless with customized rates and valving like FusionofIdeas is testing in real world racing.

DSE? Looks like a well engineered package overall. JRI makes some excellent products. Spring rates seems way too low for track work with DOT-R or Hoosiers. I'm guessing this would be an amazing setup for a street car with a few track weekends per year. I realize they've been making cars handle well for a long time with great results and feedback (especially with older muscle cars), and do some racing here and there, but I don't hear about DSE being used by competitive racers at national level of autox, time trial, or wheel to wheel. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Maybe it just doesn't matter. I do realize DSE knows a heck of a lot more than I ever will about suspension. I just don't think it's likely the right choice for my goals.

I still need some education from y'all that have done a lot more with the Gen5. I'm late to the game, but I'm going to stick with this old boat for a while and see how it goes
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Old 12-24-2018, 12:02 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by bkevind View Post
Interesting. I should probably start a separate thread discussing suspension - the pros/cons and "vs" each other in outright performance.

I did like the OEM 1LE suspension - the front end does feel very good, but I didn't like how much it rolls, and has to "take set".

I did some stupid things without really thinking it through:
-Purchased a used set of Z/28 spring/multimatics
--Did not install these. Second thoughts hit hard because of the known high rebound setting which is of course non-adjustable, and the bumpy nature of most Texas tracks. Airborne tires are not gripping. Not gripping is losing momentum.
-Purchased a barely used Ridetech HQ coilovers.
--Installed these. At first I was rather enamored with the subtle lowering (I hate the 4x4 look of the gen 5 OEM) and the handling / grip was significantly improved. A lot of that improvement I would attribute to the more aggressive alignment (-2 up front).

I think the RT are a good entry/mid level for folks that want adjustable ride height. I was hoping for more with the fox shocks, but...anyway. I'm sure higher level fox will work better

I have to believe you when you say the Z/28 setup is a more track oriented setup.

I think I just want to go to the next level and for now I'm thinking of

-MCS (proven, no brainer) track+street, capable race only choice
-Ohlins R&T street+track. Following FusionofIdeas (forum member / Z/28 racer) who has made a switch to Ohlins R&T but with soem customization for racing (perhaps just higher spring rates with appropriate valving)

Obviously there are hardcore customizable race choices, with hardcore costs from several renowned shock companies.

I'm not going there. The most I am likely to do for 2019 some track days and some casual effort time trials. If I like what the car does this season, I want go a bit more hard core with it and turn into a low budget wheel to wheel and little more serious TT'er at club/regional level.

MCS seems like my choice
Ohlins maybe. R&T is a street setup so I'm not sure it makes sense, unless with customized rates and valving like FusionofIdeas is testing in real world racing.

DSE? Looks like a well engineered package overall. JRI makes some excellent products. Spring rates seems way too low for track work with DOT-R or Hoosiers. I'm guessing this would be an amazing setup for a street car with a few track weekends per year. I realize they've been making cars handle well for a long time with great results and feedback (especially with older muscle cars), and do some racing here and there, but I don't hear about DSE being used by competitive racers at national level of autox, time trial, or wheel to wheel. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Maybe it just doesn't matter. I do realize DSE knows a heck of a lot more than I ever will about suspension. I just don't think it's likely the right choice for my goals.

I still need some education from y'all that have done a lot more with the Gen5. I'm late to the game, but I'm going to stick with this old boat for a while and see how it goes
I actually like the 1LE suspension at COTA. The biggest game changers for me were the solid cradle bushings and TrueTrac. I am also using the Gen6 spec Goodyear F1 Supercar G3s and really like them. The G3Rs from the ZL1 1LE would be better. Previously I was on Michelin PS4s on 19x11/19x10fr and just melted them - different, better car on the GYs in stock 1LE 20", though 19x11s up front clearly work for the ZL1 1LE and z28.

Before the bushing change I was having a tough time keeping my foot down through 16-17-18. The bump at 18 got me sideways a couple of times with the bouncy stock bushings. The stock clutch diff locking (I think) mid corner was unsettling as well.
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Old 12-24-2018, 12:21 PM   #39
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I actually like the 1LE suspension at COTA. The biggest game changers for me were the solid cradle bushings and TrueTrac. I am also using the Gen6 spec Goodyear F1 Supercar G3s and really like them. The G3Rs from the ZL1 1LE would be better. Previously I was on Michelin PS4s on 19x11/19x10fr and just melted them - different, better car on the GYs in stock 1LE 20", though 19x11s up front clearly work for the ZL1 1LE and z28.

Before the bushing change I was having a tough time keeping my foot down through 16-17-18. The bump at 18 got me sideways a couple of times with the bouncy stock bushings. The stock clutch diff locking (I think) mid corner was unsettling as well.
Interesting, thank you for real world feedback! I've actually been thinking about going back to my stock 1LE suspension as a reset. If I can get some good camber out of it (camber plates if necessary) it will certainly be better than I will ever be as a driver haha. When I went to the Ridetechs, the handling was remarkably improved - but I think most of that was thanks to the aggressive "street" / mild track alignment. -2 in the front (and the other changes I forget because I lost the alignment sheet ) made a remarkable difference.

I'll leave the RT's in for now, if I can't get the front to rear oscillations under control then I'll put either the 1LE back in, or I'll put the Z/28 stuff in - both I know should have the front to rear balance sorted well enough. At the fun but bumpy H2R it was pretty bad with pogo. I don't really care about ride height adjustability per se, but I do hate excessive wheel gap, it just doesn't look right on a performance car.

Great feedback about the truetrack and the bushings. My car is in the shop right now for exactly that - truetrack + LPW cover (why not since the cover is off...) + pegasus cradle bushings.

The G3Rs are at the top of my list right now, considering my old standby NT01r also because they last forever and are consistent. RE71R is on the list as a good competitor and probably last a bit longer than the G3R (forget about TW numbers), finally on the cheaper slower end - the Hankook RS4. Kinda like the idea of going with GY since the 1LE originally came with the G:2, which I really liked, and the G3R is on the ZL1 1LE as you point out.
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Old 12-25-2018, 09:22 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by bkevind View Post
Interesting, thank you for real world feedback! I've actually been thinking about going back to my stock 1LE suspension as a reset. If I can get some good camber out of it (camber plates if necessary) it will certainly be better than I will ever be as a driver haha. When I went to the Ridetechs, the handling was remarkably improved - but I think most of that was thanks to the aggressive "street" / mild track alignment. -2 in the front (and the other changes I forget because I lost the alignment sheet ) made a remarkable difference.

I'll leave the RT's in for now, if I can't get the front to rear oscillations under control then I'll put either the 1LE back in, or I'll put the Z/28 stuff in - both I know should have the front to rear balance sorted well enough. At the fun but bumpy H2R it was pretty bad with pogo. I don't really care about ride height adjustability per se, but I do hate excessive wheel gap, it just doesn't look right on a performance car.

Great feedback about the truetrack and the bushings. My car is in the shop right now for exactly that - truetrack + LPW cover (why not since the cover is off...) + pegasus cradle bushings.

The G3Rs are at the top of my list right now, considering my old standby NT01r also because they last forever and are consistent. RE71R is on the list as a good competitor and probably last a bit longer than the G3R (forget about TW numbers), finally on the cheaper slower end - the Hankook RS4. Kinda like the idea of going with GY since the 1LE originally came with the G:2, which I really liked, and the G3R is on the ZL1 1LE as you point out.
My alignment is maxed at -2 front and -1 rear. Toe at 0. Maxing out the front camber is a must to balance the car.

My oscillations are gone now with the solid bushings and truetrac. You will have a new sense of confidence in the sweepers. My builder was very clear to use Lucas 85w-140 w/ the truetrac and change after each event.

I went to H2R once on a SCCA track night. Was surprised at how fun the track was. It has a natural flow. I watched Boxsters and Focus RS go sideways in front of me on that downhill left hander. Amazed I was more hooked up. They have been repaving, but the one straight is still very bumpy.

Edit: I needed an alignment after the new bushings.

Good luck!
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Old 12-28-2018, 03:42 PM   #41
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Damn good driving, man. That big balls turn the one before the finish?
No, it would be Turn 16
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