What is modern muscle? an article

[E.T.]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

dude a Japanese 370z has the same size engine. japs should not have the same size engines as muscle cars. as time goes on the bar gets set higher. i bet in 5 years it will be 500HP. or if cars get lighter than maybe not.

honestly a 3.6L is not very big in the modern muscle car world.

a 2002 v8 is old technology man. why does so many 6 owners feel the need to get the same respect as v8 owners in the performance world.

Size or # of cylinders isn't always everything. A 370z will keep up with an SS (or maybe almost keep up), and the new twin turbo ecoboost V6 in the Ford 150 is cranking out 420 lb ft of TQ.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by E.T.

Size or # of cylinders isn't always everything. A 370z will keep up with an SS (or maybe almost keep up), and the new twin turbo ecoboost V6 in the Ford 150 is cranking out 420 lb ft of TQ.

size is not everything. look at a WRX STI. a 2.0L turbo cranks out 290HP/ 300TQ. thats pretty impressive. or a 370z keeping up with a SS.or a 5.0L mustang keeping up with a BMW m3 , again it comes down to the right engine in the right car.the camaro is a HEAVY performance car it needs over 400 pounds of torque with 400HP to even be consider quick. and trust me a stock SS is not even that fast compared to cars i see at meets.

it comes down to power/weight ratio. my camaro right now has more power than a stock Ls7 Z06, but a stock Z06 is faster. because it weighs like 3200-3300 pounds compared to 3800. get my point ?

for the most part, just to name a few
American performance ideology = big v8 engines, GTO, SS, 5.0L, challenger 392 /STR, GT550 cars from the 70s-80s etc

Japanese performance ideology = light weight performance, Evo, 370z, WRX, GTR, LFA, supra, rx7/8 etc

European performance ideology = they go for overall performance mix of everything. there engines are for the most part little bigger than jap engines but not as big as american performance engines.
m3, m5, 335i, m1, s4, R8, porsche, etc

i know things are starting to change now of days. i know america is starting to make smaller engines, but for years this is how is was. and still is to this DAy. idk for how much longer though.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

size is not everything. look at a WRX STI. a 2.0L turbo cranks out 290HP/ 300TQ. thats pretty impressive. or a 370z keeping up with a SS.or a 5.0L mustang keeping up with a BMW m3 , again it comes down to the right engine in the right car.the camaro is a HEAVY performance car it needs over 400 pounds of torque with 400HP to even be consider quick. and trust me a stock SS is not even that fast compared to cars i see at meets.

it comes down to power/weight ratio. my camaro right now has more power than a stock Ls7 Z06, but a stock Z06 is faster. because it weighs like 3200-3300 pounds compared to 3800. get my point ?

for the most part, just to name a few
American performance ideology = big v8 engines, GTO, SS, 5.0L, challenger 392 /STR, GT550 cars from the 70s-80s etc

Japanese performance ideology = light weight performance, Evo, 370z, WRX, GTR, LFA, supra, rx7/8 etc

European performance ideology = they go for overall performance mix of everything. there engines are for the most part little bigger than jap engines but not as big as american performance engines.
m3, m5, 335i, m1, s4, R8, porsche, etc

i know things are starting to change now of days. i know america is starting to make smaller engines, but for years this is how is was. and still is to this DAy. idk for how much longer though.

Doesn't the GTR weight like almost as much as a Camaro considering it weighs in at about 3,800LB? lol I agree with everything else though lol

[Captain Vlad]

Echoing CF, I really don't give a damn what anyone else calls my car. I have to wonder why the muscle car distinction seems so important to people.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

Doesn't the GTR weight like almost as much as a Camaro considering it weighs in at about 3,800LB? lol I agree with everything else though lol

yes the GTR does weigh lot for a Japanese sports car. but they still kept the jap engine in the car. smaller engine with twin turbos. compared to a light weigh Z06 with a huge engine. i cant see a GTR having a bigger engine than a Z06, its just the american way. and that guy was saying a 3.6L is a big engine, maybe for a Japanese sports car its bigger/average. not for "muscle" cars !!!!

[derklug]

The only thing I saw wrong is the Corvette, it is a sports car and not a Muscle car. Truth is, with modern engines, it is harder and harder to define catagories. Crossover with 450 horse; is that a muscle car, a truck, or a grocery getter on steroids?

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by derklug

The only thing I saw wrong is the Corvette, it is a sports car and not a Muscle car. Truth is, with modern engines, it is harder and harder to define catagories. Crossover with 450 horse; is that a muscle car, a truck, or a grocery getter on steroids?

well dude you have to use a little common sense, it has to be a performance car. of course a dam truck is not a muscle CAR.

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by CamaroFemme

Don't feel bad, with the auto I only BARELY qualify on horsepower, and with the stock exhaust I might even be out of the running! AND I HAVE THE SS!

That's why I don't let magazine articles define what muscle car means to me.

P.S. You have a muscle car as far as I'm concerned.

ty

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

dude a Japanese 370z has the same size engine. japs should not have the same size engines as muscle cars. as time goes on the bar gets set higher. i bet in 5 years it will be 500HP. or if cars get lighter than maybe not.

honestly a 3.6L is not very big in the modern muscle car world.

a 2002 v8 is old technology man. why does so many 6 owners feel the need to get the same respect as v8 owners in the performance world.

if you forget the past your stuck to repeat the past

IF we forget where the orginal camaro came from no one would make it the camaro we drive now never would be

the improvements we have now are due to the past

*edit* the average car now adays IS a 4 banger the camaro was almost not born because the us goverment felt no one would buy a v6 or a v8 as soon as the goverment took over they killed the hummer notice there is barely any suv's floating around?

and i did not want to start a debate here but im sorry the comment you made sounds stuck up TBH and i qoute "why does so many 6 owners feel the need to get the same respect as v8 owners in the performance world"

and a 3.6 is NOT big look at all the hybrids all the gas saveing cars the average car now adays barely is above a 4 banger not to mention v6 and v8's may not be around in the next 10 years if people keep going on with ECO in mind

[shawn18]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

size is not everything.

..........................Yes..............Yes it is

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by Nightfall

if you forget the past your stuck to repeat the past

IF we forget where the orginal camaro came from no one would make it the camaro we drive now never would be

the improvements we have now are due to the past

*edit* the average car now adays IS a 4 banger the camaro was almost not born because the us goverment felt no one would buy a v6 or a v8 as soon as the goverment took over they killed the hummer notice there is barely any suv's floating around?

and i did not want to start a debate here but im sorry the comment you made sounds stuck up TBH and i qoute "why does so many 6 owners feel the need to get the same respect as v8 owners in the performance world"

and a 3.6 is NOT big look at all the hybrids all the gas saveing cars the average car now adays barely is above a 4 banger not to mention v6 and v8's may not be around in the next 10 years if people keep going on with ECO in mind

first off, the camaro is not a average car v6 or v8, so why compare it to average cars, do you think i go around at car meets saying " my camaro is faster than that ford focus over there" no i say "my camaro is faster than that STI over there". get my point ? so my point is still valid a 3.6L is big for the average car, small for "muscle cars " and this article is about muscle cars, not average cars.

second thing, they will always make performance cars, probably just going to cost extra. probably will have a smaller engine, but who cares as long as it puts the times and power/weight ratio is down i will be happy. LOL

i am a performance enthusiast. i love 4,6,8,10,12, etc cylinder engines. idk why the government thought a v6 or v8 camaro wont sell, i mean i see v6/v8 mustangs every where LOL.