Bumble Bee Racecar

[Dexman1349]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Take a bolt out, put it back in the hole it came out of with a few turns on the nut. This helps is a great assist when you put her back together.

I did that on the driver's side which is why there aren't any problems there. Lesson learned.

[mpiersd]

Sweet build.
And pretty cool seeing the movie car club, wish I'd known about them when I lived in colorado Springs. Pretty cool seeing the Cannonball Run Subaru.

[Dexman1349]

Newest round of upgrades: the Stereo. I know, I know, the Z-28 doesn't have a stereo. But I don't want a Z-28. I like music, pretty much all kinds of music so long as it has a good beat (which means I hate hippy and country). Unfortunately, my driver's side tweeter is starting to go out. It's not a big deal for about 95% of the songs that come on the radio, and of that remaining 5% most of those aren't really noticeable either, but I hear it often enough that I want it fixed.

Nothing is fixed yet, but this write-up will cover up through the research/purchase. Next post will cover the install.

tl:dr version:
One tweeter going out means that I have to replace the front speakers because the tweeters are matched to the lower 6.5" speakers in the door. New front speakers will be underpowered by the stock Boston Acoustics amp, so the amp needs an update. A new amp will severely overpower the rear speakers, so the rears need to be done. I don't want multiple amps in the trunk, so I will power the existing sub with the new amp. New amp overpowers existing sub, so new sub. Factory wiring is just barely good enough for the weaker system, need to rewire the car too (plus it's easier since everything is taken apart for the speaker swap anyways). I probably could have just replaced the old tweeter with someone's "take offs", but what's the fun in that?

Full story:
So, having been removed from the car audio scene for several years I had no idea what was "good" anymore. I visited the Crutchfield website to get some ideas and found some good ideas to get it all upgraded for $500, but I wanted to hear the speakers first. Only way to find out what sounds good is to listen to it, right? Off to the car audio store. Walk in and I am instantly overwhelmed with the selection. Are there really that many different types of speakers now? "Back in the Day" (read: 10-15 years ago) there were only a handful of decent brands to choose from, now I'm seeing a half-dozen brands I've never heard of with prices much higher than expected. I quickly realize that my $500 goal is insanely unreasonable. This is for a couple of reasons: 1) What Crutchfield recommended was not very good and 2) Crutchfield doesn't know what's in these cars.

After a couple of hours at the shop, I came away with some pretty good ideas as to what I wanted, but I really was not a fan of the pricetag. I've dropped close to $10k on my car, but suddenly I'm hesitating on some $250 speakers? Oh well, it is what it is, right?

But me being me, I have to research the $#!+ out of everything before buying. There has to be something easier/cheaper out there. Once again, I'm in the technical forums here on C5 where I not only find some good answers and advice, but I also uncover more questions. Most of these questions center around the rear speakers; do I need them, if so then what size, how does this change the amp. Audiophiles say rear speakers are worthless if my front speakers are any good, but I'm not an audiophile and I have kids who like tunes in the rear seat. The install for the rears looks like hell and those speakers seem to working just fine, so maybe keep the stock ones?

I was told I should check out some of the online audio-specific forums for advice. Most of what I found there were audio snobs who when they say they built a system, they built everything. I mean EVERYTHING. They go almost as far as twisting their own wires. Not a ton of help, but I was able to fish out a few pointers. Biggest help from them was finding an amazing shop nearby.

After a week of checking out a dozen different online shops trying to find the best prices, I somehow ended up at www.pacificstereo.com They have an online chat feature, so I thought I'd see what they would recommend. We chatted for close to two hours before he even suggested a product. He wanted to know what type of music I liked, what my expectations were, what else I have done to the car, which brands I had a preference too, if I had listened to anything so far, and a bunch of other Q's just trying to build the best picture. After a couple more hours of suggestions, debate, and answering a ton of my questions we ended up with the following build:

Focal 165AS front component speakers
Focal R-690-C rear speakers
Audiocontrol LC7i signal processor
Alpine PDX-V9 amplifier
JL Audio 12W3v3-2 subwoofer
and a handful of wiring/cables/accessories to make the whole thing run (thanks to ******** for the speaker mounts, amp mount, and FARK kit).

I know it's not the best system out there, but it will definitely be better than stock.

The next step is obviously the install. I didn't hesitate to do the install for everything else on the car, why should this be different? Two words: plastic tabs. They are the bane of my existence. If I look at one, it will break. And I will have to remove almost every interior panel in this car for the install, so there would be a ton of broken tabs. Broken tabs = rattles = The other option is to have a shop do it, but most of the shops I had found so far were going to charge close to $500 for the install. And that was ONLY labor! I would still have to buy all the wire, harnesses, mounting brackets, and I'm sure they would charge me for lunch too.

Back to the awesome shop recommended above. Turns out they have a "flat rate" install price for speakers that is significantly cheaper than anywhere else I've found. Doesn't matter if it's one panel or all of them. I can do the signal processor, amp and sub install. That's straight forward, but if I can pay someone only a couple hundred bucks to do the rest, sounds like a plan to me.

Stay tuned for the install coming soon.

[DP Valentino]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The sources of noise after lowering are usually found in endlinks and exhaust.

The easiest way to eliminate endlinks as the source is to disconnect one and secure it so it won't foul on a test drive. Disconnecting one endlink disables the bar and allows you to trouble shoot quickly.

Having that same problem as well after lowering my car. Very annoying!

[Dexman1349]

Amp, LC7i, and Sub were installed this weekend. That really made a huge difference in the sound quality. I was actually caught sitting in my car last night just listening to the stereo. I am very happy with the build so far. I can't wait to get the speakers done (depends on when I can get some time off to get the car down to the shop). I still haven't gone through and adjusted the gains, filters, etc on the system to fully maximize the quality and will probably wait to get that done until after the new speakers are installed.

I only ended up using the ******** amp mount and am temporarily using a couple of their harnesses until I get the new speakers installed and rewired. I cut the existing harnesses off and just ran the original wires directly to the LC7i as it mounted up a lot cleaner that way without adding more things floating around back there. I have no intention of going back to the factory setup, so keeping the original harnesses wasn't necessary.

After going through the install, I can definitely say there is some value to the comments about removing the rear speakers from the equation. It sounds really good with only upgrading the amp and using the factory front speakers (center speaker deleted), but I am glad I am keeping the rears.

The only real challenge so far is that I don't have a mounting place for the amp. It ended up being just a bit too big to mount in the factory amp spot, so I used the ******** kit to mount the LC7i there instead and the amp is just sitting on the floor of the trunk. I was looking at possibly building some sort of mount to go in the spare tire hole, but I will consult with the speaker install shop to see what they would recommend (maybe have them do it).

Nothing to really post for pictures.

[Dexman1349]

I can officially call Bee a racecar. Last night I decided to join some friends up at Bandimere speedway for one of the weekly Colorado State Patrol "Take it to the track" nights where for $30 you get to run as many 1/4 mile races as you can from 4:30pm to 9pm (weather & #of cars obviously effect number of runs you can take).

I got there about 4:15 to go through tech inspection, and my first run was right at 4:30. I was lucky to show up just as one of my more "seasoned" friends was getting ready to run, so he talked me through some of the initial tips, etiquette, strategy, etc, then we went off racing. It was warm and clear for most of the evening, but got delayed for rain a little after 5:30 for about 45 minutes. Track was closed again at 8-ish for another light sprinkle. I was hoping for another pass before the track closed for the night (they close the lines at 8:45pm), but called it a night when it started raining again.

Here is a copy of the time slips (I can post close-ups if you want to see individual times better):


Summary of the times:
Race 1 ET 14.198 @ 105.13, R/T .875. 60' 2.387
Race 2 ET 14.107 @ 105.98, R/T .301, 60' 2.359
Race 3 ET 14.407 @ 105.60, R/T .263, 60' 2.572
Race 4 ET 14.493 @ 105.40, R/T .061, 60' 2.586
Race 5 ET 14.101 @ 105.14, R/T .042, 60' 2.361
Race 6 ET 14.521 @ 104.95, R/T .428, 60' 2.683

I was in car #44. First 3 passes were against my friend. He has a similarly equipped Gen 5 Camaro except his has a cam, 3.91 gears, and nitrous. His first two runs were without nitrous, the 3rd was with it but he didn't get any traction and shifted from 2nd to 5th. My 4th pass was against an early 2000's Red Mustang. Really wasn't as close as that driver had hoped. 5th pass was against a 2013 Black Charger (rental car) driven by a friend of a friend. 6th and final pass was against a '90's Chevy 1/2-ton truck.

A couple observations on my own performance: 1) My friends's advice of going on the 3rd yellow really helped with my R/T's, 2) I can't start with anything better than 1700 RPM without spinning my tires halfway down 1st gear, and 3) I prefer Mustangs with honey mustard dipping sauce (Race #4)

As far as launching, I was dumping the clutch and just mashing the gas pedal to the floor (lifting slightly when shifting). I was getting wheel spin in all 6 races, but it seemed to be worse when I started at a higher RPM. When I was in the 1500-2000 range I had my better times, but when I was launching at 2500 RPM it just kept spinning. For my worst 3 races: In race 4 I forgot to turn off traction control. Race 6 I was a little "psyched out" by the truck with slicks in the lane next to me and wasn't focused on what I was doing. Race 3 was one where my friend in the left lane was using nitrous and got a little squirrley so I lifted a little when I saw his car starting to point at my lane.

Other factors for the night:
I have never run a 1/4 mile track before
Track is at over 5000' elevation
I am running Continental Extreme Contact DWS all-season tires.
Said tires are at the treadwear indicators on the rears.

It was fun. I was just trying to go as fast as I could, wasn't really trying for consistency. Will I do this again? Definitely. Will this be a weekly event? Probably not until I get another car. Despite having the suspension upgraded, I still had a couple launches with wheel hop and it makes me nervous racing something I use as a daily driver with no backup.

[JDP Sales]

Nice build! Thanks for having us be a part of it!

Best regards,

Tyler
888-308-6007

[Dexman1349]

Originally Posted by Dexman1349

I can officially call Bee a racecar.

It was fun. I was just trying to go as fast as I could, wasn't really trying for consistency. Will I do this again? Definitely. Will this be a weekly event? Probably not until I get another car. Despite having the suspension upgraded, I still had a couple launches with wheel hop and it makes me nervous racing something I use as a daily driver with no backup.

I am now dealing with the fall-out from the races. Something came loose, got bent, or broke and I'm slowly trying to figure out what is wrong. Shortly after the races I noticed the suspension was clunking as if something was loose. I didn't really try to focus on exactly when the noises were happening, but I knew it was something in the rear suspension. After crawling all over it trying to see what was loose, I finally took Justice Pete's advice of just disconnecting the sway bar and doing a quick drive. Sounds were gone, so after reattaching the sway bars I spent a little extra time making sure they were fully tightened.

Problem went away...mostly. There was still a clunking noise, but it seemed to only happen when the brakes were applied. One solid clunk when applied, followed by a similar one once released. So my thoughts are something with the brakes. Calipers haven't been touched, nothing looked loose and I saw no evidence of movement. I looked over the rest of the brake system and it was possible the brake pads were loose/cracked/broken, but nothing really seemed to indicate any sort of issues other than the fact the pads are getting thin (original stock brakes after 53k miles). I even thought maybe it was something loose in the drivetrain. It sounded like when the brakes were applied the car would "shift" forward causing the first clunk, and then shift back when the brakes were let off.

I finally took it to a friends shop and he put the car up on a lift. While up there I would accelerate up to 15mph and then hit the brakes. Within a few minutes he noticed that the upper control arm bushing was moving something fierce while braking.

Next day I ordered a new set of UCA bushings from JDP in case something was broken when I went in to investigate.

Last night I was able to get in there and check things out for myself. Here are the bushings (old on the left, new on the right)

passenger side:


driver side:


As you can see, there is some deformation in the bushings right around the inner ferrule.

Unfortunately, this is only the fall-out damage. It doesn't tell me what's wrong. All of the bolts were tight when I removed the old ones, all of the bolts are tight on the new ones, and the suspension still clunks. The clunking is reduced, but it's still there.

In the 24 hours since the bushing swap, I think I have an idea what the problem is. It's the order in which everything was installed. I don't remember specifically in which order the bolts on the original bushings were installed, but I do on the new ones. For the passenger side, I installed the "main" bolt between the bushing and UCA first, then installed the two side mounting bolts. On the drivers side, I attempted the same order, but had to loosen the main bolt 1/2" because the side mounting bolts weren't lining up. Once those bolts were in, the main bolt was tightened. At this point I believe the ferrule of the UCA may be just slightly loose and is bound inside the bushing giving the impression of everything being tight but under load shifts enough to become unbound and consequently clunk.

Another theory is that something got bent and is causing uneven loading on the UCA. Either way I'll be back under the car again this weekend...

[Black Knight]

Been following you build thread car looks great . Hope you get that suspension noise cleared up

[Dexman1349]

Bee got his first tow truck ride this morning. I tried to upgrade the differential bushings yesterday and just could not get the OEM bushings out. I followed the instructions to the letter and it didn't work. I used a 2" hole saw to drill out the center rubber part, then the next step is to use a screwdriver and pry out the outer aluminum casing. I broke 3 screwdrivers. And this was just the first bushing. I still have 2 more to do.

I tried using a torch thinking the heat would help loosen things. That didn't work. I tried cutting them (one cut as 6 o'clock, one at 4 o'clock and try to pry out that small wedge). That didn't work either. After several hours I had to just throw in the towel. The metal used on the differential is actually quite soft and I feared that if I kept going I would end up breaking something which would make things VERY expensive. Only option left was to load it up on a flat bed and take it into a shop. Never even got to the other two bushings.

The bushing swap was just one more attempt to fix the clunking noise described above. The thought was the differential itself was moving and one of the bushings may have failed.

JusticePete suggested that the "middle" bolt of the UCA could be the cause of the clunking noise as he had broken that ferrule before. Only option to fix that would be new UCA's, and he suggested getting the ones from the Z28 as they are better than anything in the aftermarket world. I'm having the shop look at that while they are under the car fixing the differential bushings. We'll see how that turns out...


Edit: Spohn trailing arms removed. Can't get those f*ckers tight enough. Holes through the ferrule just too big (0.5" opening, 0.45" bolt), so the OEM ones going back on. Brake clunk is still there. Not sure if the shop looked at the UCA's today or not. I may just leave the car there until they can look at everything.

[Dexman1349]

Update:
Went to the shop last night to go over the work they had done and to take it out on a drive to see if they could isolate the noises a little better. First thing I noticed was that the car was A LOT more noisy. It was clunking with every little bump in the road. I made an off-hand comment about them not tightening the wheels. Tech looked at me and said, "but we didn't touch the wheels." Oh crap, I had removed them when I was working on the diff bushings and had only hand tightened them so I could get it on the tow truck. 2 minutes later with a torque wrench and back behind the wheel the car was silent. Not a sound.

Turns out it was the Spohn trailing arms. No matter what we did we couldn't keep them from moving. The part that sucks is that because I've had them for more than 30 days (close to 3 months since I bought them), I'm stuck with a really expensive set of paper weights. I may try to get the del sphere ends replaced and just sell them. Definitely not a fan of Spohn right now.


In other news
The new BMR differential bushings are nice. Between them and getting the sloppy Spohn trailing arms off, the rear end feels solid once again. I do notice a slight increase in NVH from the differential, especially at speeds over 65mph where it starts to whine just a little. I know the NVH is supposed to increase with those, so nothing unexpected.

Maureen at Rodgers Chevy got back to me and might be able to get a set of Z/28 upper control arms for me. Price seems reasonable, I'm just not sure if I'm ready to get back into the rear end again now that it's put back together and working properly again. I may save that for when I get more power and really need it.

[Dexman1349]

Still doesn't feel right. There is some clunking when the car lugs (slop in the drivetrain). Didn't remember this happening before.

So I crawled under the car again:

This is my passenger side axle at the differential. Grease is sprayed everywhere. Driver side does not look like this. I've been told that at a minimum I will need a new boot, worst case I need new axles.



I am genuinely getting sick of this car and ready to trade it...

[Black Knight]

Damn man that suxs. Hope it just a new boot that's nessary

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Dexman1349

Still doesn't feel right. There is some clunking when the car lugs (slop in the drivetrain). Didn't remember this happening before.

So I crawled under the car again:

This is my passenger side axle at the differential. Grease is sprayed everywhere. Driver side does not look like this. I've been told that at a minimum I will need a new boot, worst case I need new axles.



I am genuinely getting sick of this car and ready to trade it...

I think the lube that has been slung around is from increased heat due the shaft angle from lowering. The OE boots are designed to keep dirt out and not a semi-liquid state CV joint lube when hot. The solution is using a high grade synthetic lube to replace the OE lube. You can do a decent job with the fresh lube with the axles on the car. The best way is to take them off. Clean out the boots and clamp them back in place. You should be good to go.