2018 NFL Preseason talk

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Luck were hurt, but neither one of those teams were going to make a deep run anyway... especially not the Colts.

I'm really confused by this statement, because I think it's wrong actually. Had Luck been healthy, the Colts were a team that very well could have gone 11-5 or even 12-4. As it was, they had leads in the 4th quarter for 12 of their games. Games they would have won with an elite QB like Luck. They had a 13th game, that they had a lead in the 3rd quarter and lost in too.

In fact, the Colts defense is what kept them in most of those games, but most fans won't see it that way. Had Luck been healthy, that team was good enough to make an AFC Championship game. As good as that Jags defense was last year, I don't think the Colts would have been able to beat them...but its possible.

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

The way to win Super Bowls is to either have the best QB ever (Brady) play for half of what he could get, or build a strong team around a young QB you don't yet have to pay.

Giving the likes of Flacco, Dalton, Cousins, and Stafford tons of money is just stupid and clearly does not lead to playoff success.

To start, Brady isn't the best QB ever. Sorry, but no. You could put a lot of very good QB's in New England and they could replicate his success. You could put Brady in a lot of other cities, and he wouldn't have played in 7 SBs....and that's just a reality. Brady benefits from that system as much as he is an elite QB.

It's only stupid to pay them that kind of money if you're okay with mediocrity. The Lions have never been as relevant in the NFL as they have currently with Stafford, and they've never had a QB as good as him in recent memory. Flacco is the best QB to ever wear a Ravens uniform period. Dalton isn't a great QB, and of all the ones you listed, probably the one you should just kick down the street. Yet, the Bengals have been a very competitive team, made the playoffs, and Dalton has some good regular season stats.

That leaves me with Cousins, and truthfully, if the Redskins had simply done him right in the first place....we're not talking about him right now. Instead, they tried to cheapskate him...and he's now going to make 150 mil for 5 years.

With the exception of Dalton, you're still talking about 3 of the top 10 QB's in the league right now. The reason you pay these guys is because it is better to take that hit than watch them go to another team and win. The Colts cut Manning because they weren't even sure he would play the game again. It was the right choice because even if he had stayed, he would have never played for the championship again in Indy.

Instead, he went to Denver, posted 4 division titles, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win, and set more records than you can list.

That is exactly why teams pay QBs...because before Manning went to Denver...they were an 8-8 team. Cousins makes Minnesota 10x better at the QB position. Imagine the Bills with Rodgers at QB, or the Browns with Matthew Stafford. Imagine the Cardinals with Nick Foles...

[BMR Sales]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Flacco is the best QB to ever wear a Ravens uniform period.

Sorry, I had to laugh at that one! It's not like you are looking at a Long List of Decent QBs. Steve McNair put up better numbers in the year he was there. Otherwise the list looks like a Dumpster Fire - Grbac, Stoney Case, Kyle Boller, Tony Banks, & Vinny Testeverde.

But yet Trent Dilfer Wins the Super Bowl & goes to Disney World!

[sherob]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

Sorry, I had to laugh at that one! It's not like you are looking at a Long List of Decent QBs. Steve McNair put up better numbers in the year he was there. Otherwise the list looks like a Dumpster Fire - Grbac, Stoney Case, Kyle Boller, Tony Banks, & Vinny Testeverde.

But yet Trent Dilfer Wins the Super Bowl & goes to Disney World!

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

Sorry, I had to laugh at that one! It's not like you are looking at a Long List of Decent QBs. Steve McNair put up better numbers in the year he was there. Otherwise the list looks like a Dumpster Fire - Grbac, Stoney Case, Kyle Boller, Tony Banks, & Vinny Testeverde.

But yet Trent Dilfer Wins the Super Bowl & goes to Disney World!

Eh... McNair never had the stats Flacco had...and Flacco already outdoes him in pretty much every other stat too...

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

It's only stupid to pay them that kind of money if you're okay with mediocrity. The Lions have never been as relevant in the NFL as they have currently with Stafford, and they've never had a QB as good as him in recent memory. Flacco is the best QB to ever wear a Ravens uniform period. Dalton isn't a great QB, and of all the ones you listed, probably the one you should just kick down the street. Yet, the Bengals have been a very competitive team, made the playoffs, and Dalton has some good regular season stats.

That leaves me with Cousins, and truthfully, if the Redskins had simply done him right in the first place....we're not talking about him right now. Instead, they tried to cheapskate him...and he's now going to make 150 mil for 5 years.

With the exception of Dalton, you're still talking about 3 of the top 10 QB's in the league right now. The reason you pay these guys is because it is better to take that hit than watch them go to another team and win. The Colts cut Manning because they weren't even sure he would play the game again. It was the right choice because even if he had stayed, he would have never played for the championship again in Indy.

Instead, he went to Denver, posted 4 division titles, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win, and set more records than you can list.

That is exactly why teams pay QBs...because before Manning went to Denver...they were an 8-8 team. Cousins makes Minnesota 10x better at the QB position. Imagine the Bills with Rodgers at QB, or the Browns with Matthew Stafford. Imagine the Cardinals with Nick Foles...

I'm not going to get into the Brady thing, so...

How many SB's have the Ravens won since they paid Flacco? Zero. They have been mediocre.

How many SB's have the Lions won since they paid Stafford? Zero. They have been mediocre.

How many SB's... playoff games even... have the Bengals won since they paid Dalton. Zero. They were better than mediocre but not much.

How many SB's did the Redskins win while paying Cousins franchise tag money. Zero. They were mediocre.

How many SB's did the Saints win since they paid Brees? Zero. They have been, until last year, mediocre.

How many SB's did the Seahawks win since they paid Russelll Wilson. Zero. And now they are being dismantled.

The Broncos won a SB in spite of Manning, not because of him. Their defense was so good they were winning with Brock Osweiler! All Manning had to do was not completely suck... which he (barely) managed to do.

And as for Nick Foles... that is my exact point. Because they were not paying a QB big money the Eagles were able to assemble such a talented team that they could win with any decent QB. As Nick Foles proved. To think that Nick Foles is somehow elite is silly. Any decent QB could win with the Eagles because they are that good.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

How many SB's have the Ravens won since they paid Flacco? Zero. They have been mediocre.

The whole reason he got paid is because he WON THEM A SB....He had them in an AFC Championship game two seasons after that, which they lost to NE.

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

How many SB's have the Lions won since they paid Stafford? Zero. They have been mediocre.

The Lions have never even played for a SB...so they were already mediocre before Stafford. However, since Stafford, they have had their best QB in the history of the franchise. The Lions have 9 playoff appearances since 1984...Stafford accounts for 3 of those.

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

How many SB's... playoff games even... have the Bengals won since they paid Dalton. Zero. They were better than mediocre but not much.

I already agreed with you here.. I think Dalton is a tier 2 QB...just good enough to win, but not great.

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

How many SB's did the Redskins win while paying Cousins franchise tag money. Zero. They were mediocre.

They also mismanaged and tore that team apart out from under him. In 2016, he threw for almost 5000 yards. They cut loose both of his top WR's in 2017...and he still managed to throw for over 4000 yards. Cousins isn't a Manning or a Brady...but he's definitely a QB that can produce if the team backs him. We'll see how he does in Minnesota...but that team is going to be good without him..

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

How many SB's did the Saints win since they paid Brees? Zero. They have been, until last year, mediocre.

They were always mediocre... Brees is single-handedly the reason for their success to begin with. The guy has more 5000 yard throwing seasons than anyone in the history of the NFL...take him away and this is a 2-14 team all day...

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

How many SB's did the Seahawks win since they paid Russelll Wilson. Zero. And now they are being dismantled.

Their defense was getting old, their offensive line fell apart..and the rest of the division got better. They've been in the playoffs every year since his contract extension....and he had just come off back to back SB appearances when he signed the extension for his contract.

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

The Broncos won a SB in spite of Manning, not because of him. Their defense was so good they were winning with Brock Osweiler! All Manning had to do was not completely suck... which he (barely) managed to do.

You conveniently forget that Manning was the reason the team was where it was in the first place. They were in 9-9 the year before Manning arrived. They averaged no less than 12-4 over the 4 years Manning was in Denver. They had two SB appearances, two AFC championships, 4 division titles. Not to mention, Manning won a league MVP, set countless personal/team records. Yes, his final season, he spent more time being hurt and not playing well....but for the 3 years before that...he was the reason that team was so great. Given the fact that he helped put that team on the map for those few years....(and the defense failing him on a long bomb in 2012) I think he deserved to be carried that final season.

AND, despite all of that "defensive talent"...the team is still mediocre right now because they don't have a decent QB.

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

And as for Nick Foles... that is my exact point. Because they were not paying a QB big money the Eagles were able to assemble such a talented team that they could win with any decent QB. As Nick Foles proved. To think that Nick Foles is somehow elite is silly. Any decent QB could win with the Eagles because they are that good.

LoL. Foles was already a Pro Bowler before the Eagles traded him away, and to say otherwise, is foolish. Foles was traded by the Eagles for picks, which helped build the team to what it is now.

And to say that the Eagles are "that" good is a joke. That same team was 7-9 the year before...and they squeaked out a win over the Falcons in the divisional round.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Panthers have a new owner. David Tepper

[PoorMansCamaro]

Thurman Thomas getting his number retired in Buffalo.

[Steve Dallas]

Also with Russell Wilson, we paid some huge contracts to keep that defense together. The only reason we didn't make the playoffs last year was because Avril, Chancellor and Sherman all went down with season/career ending surgeries.

Taking those contracts off the books will help a lot. I'll miss Sherman, however he had his Achilles injury last year, so there was no guarantee he'd come back the same as he was.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

Also with Russell Wilson, we paid some huge contracts to keep that defense together. The only reason we didn't make the playoffs last year was because Avril, Chancellor and Sherman all went down with season/career ending surgeries.

Taking those contracts off the books will help a lot. I'll miss Sherman, however he had his Achilles injury last year, so there was no guarantee he'd come back the same as he was.

Yep, very true.

I mean, the Seahawks had just about everything you could want come together for a span of about 6 seasons...two SB appearances and 1 win...

Any team would take that...

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

The whole reason he got paid is because he WON THEM A SB....He had them in an AFC Championship game two seasons after that, which they lost to NE.

The Lions have never even played for a SB...so they were already mediocre before Stafford. However, since Stafford, they have had their best QB in the history of the franchise. The Lions have 9 playoff appearances since 1984...Stafford accounts for 3 of those.

I already agreed with you here.. I think Dalton is a tier 2 QB...just good enough to win, but not great.

They also mismanaged and tore that team apart out from under him. In 2016, he threw for almost 5000 yards. They cut loose both of his top WR's in 2017...and he still managed to throw for over 4000 yards. Cousins isn't a Manning or a Brady...but he's definitely a QB that can produce if the team backs him. We'll see how he does in Minnesota...but that team is going to be good without him..

They were always mediocre... Brees is single-handedly the reason for their success to begin with. The guy has more 5000 yard throwing seasons than anyone in the history of the NFL...take him away and this is a 2-14 team all day...

Their defense was getting old, their offensive line fell apart..and the rest of the division got better. They've been in the playoffs every year since his contract extension....and he had just come off back to back SB appearances when he signed the extension for his contract.

You conveniently forget that Manning was the reason the team was where it was in the first place. They were in 9-9 the year before Manning arrived. They averaged no less than 12-4 over the 4 years Manning was in Denver. They had two SB appearances, two AFC championships, 4 division titles. Not to mention, Manning won a league MVP, set countless personal/team records. Yes, his final season, he spent more time being hurt and not playing well....but for the 3 years before that...he was the reason that team was so great. Given the fact that he helped put that team on the map for those few years....(and the defense failing him on a long bomb in 2012) I think he deserved to be carried that final season.

AND, despite all of that "defensive talent"...the team is still mediocre right now because they don't have a decent QB.

I am not saying any of those QB's are or are not good. I am just saying that with only two exceptions (Giants and Broncos) no team has won a Super Bowl after giving their QB a massive contract. And I don't think that is a coincidence.

And the two that did win... the Giants were just an OK team (good defense, meh offense) that got super hot just at the right time. The Broncos had one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL. Neither win was because of the QB carrying them to victory, although Manning (Eli) did play well in the playoffs after sucking most of the year

LoL. Foles was already a Pro Bowler before the Eagles traded him away, and to say otherwise, is foolish. Foles was traded by the Eagles for picks, which helped build the team to what it is now.

He was a decent QB, but nothing special. Then he had a magical year. Then he went back to being just a decent QB.

That said, I really like Nick Foles. I like the way he didn't quit and kept believing and I'm glad he won the Super Bowl.

And to say that the Eagles are "that" good is a joke. That same team was 7-9 the year before...and they squeaked out a win over the Falcons in the divisional round.

The Eagles are one of the most talented teams in the league. Certainly in the top three.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Well after a QB wins the SB or repetitively helps take their team to the playoffs, you pay them handsomely, in hopes they continue and/or win more SB’s. Not trade them away or let them walk in hopes that a rookie or some backup will help your team.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

Well after a QB wins the SB or repetitively helps take their team to the playoffs, you pay them handsomely, in hopes they continue and/or win more SB’s. Not trade them away or let them walk in hopes that a rookie or some backup will help your team.

That's what Kansas City just did. Smart move in my opinion.

[PoorMansCamaro]

I'm not that high on Alex Smith. He's definitely easier to replace than the higher tier QB's. Smith has been one and done in the playoffs the last few years. Dalton is another qb that should be pushed out.