[samurai]

We know that two next generations of Camaros are in the works, even though this is always subject to change.

Leaked Cadillac Coupe Renderings already hint better practical elements for Alpha 2 platform / 7th Gen Camaro (way bigger side Windows, hatch trunk, etc) - So it seems like GM is working on it.

Camaro has the lowest Overall sales of the three, but has the highest average asking price and highest retail (not fleet) numbers. So it's not as bad as some people who can only look at overall sales numbers want it to be.

Since the Camaro is my weekend warrior I actually don't care about visibility or a better trunk opening. I'm having more fun having a car performing like german stuff that is twice as expensive but with way better sound. I don't think the Camaro is doomed or is at a bad spot. 5th Gen was lead by the Camaro, 2015 everbody hyped the Mustang and now a lot of people look into the Challenger. Things will change, and I just hope Chevy will keep on focussing on making an awesome sportscar. For daily driving there are always better cars

[Stex]

Visibility encompasses more than just adjusting the mirrors. Some of us like to look out the side windows or the windscreen without the over truncated view. Some like to be able to see the traffic light and Not just hear the old, tired adjust your mirrors answer.

The stang and the chal have better side and forward views. I saw a picture of one of the designers in Calif. for the Camaro. He appeared to be below average height (5' 9" or so for a male). And not a large body size.

Most people do not understand that half a foot in height also increases ones need for just more space around you. Here is hoping the C7 address this without making it into a sedan. And Now for the 'get use to it and I'm 6'6" , 250 and love it' posts.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You guys remain hilarious. Listen to yourselves without the "my baby is perfect" thoughts in your head.

"If you drive it like a panel van with no rear windows, you can learn to get used to it if you just position the mirrors properly". or "I've driven worse".


It's a thing guys and for some it's a problem. GM will never share the "reasons for not buying". In fact GM has historically been bad at even addressing it internally. But being able to see out of the car is what make the car feel more open. It's a feeling. And people buy cars on feelings.

Name another product you would consider buying that when you first used it your impression was negative and someone tried to convince you "you'll get used to it".

Also there is a HUGE difference between Direct Vision and Indirect Vision (mirrors and cameras).

I do some of this for a living guys, even wrote a thesis on it years ago. It's a thing.

This +1
Saving to buy one, but I know what I’m getting into and i know visibility won’t be like an accord. Also see below for consumer reports description

Like seeing where you're going? Then the Camaro isn't for you. Outward visibility is so limited that it would offend Ray Charles. GM claims improvements over the last-generation Camaro, but these are insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Thick windshield pillars, very short side windows, and enormous rear roof pillars all block your view. The rear package shelf is extremely high, reducing vision out of the rear window to a mere slit.

[gpskinzhut]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

This +1
Saving to buy one, but I know what I’m getting into and i know visibility won’t be like an accord. Also see below for consumer reports description

Like seeing where you're going? Then the Camaro isn't for you. Outward visibility is so limited that it would offend Ray Charles. GM claims improvements over the last-generation Camaro, but these are insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Thick windshield pillars, very short side windows, and enormous rear roof pillars all block your view. The rear package shelf is extremely high, reducing vision out of the rear window to a mere slit.

I agree there are limitations that one shouldn't stick their head in the sand and ignore, but this paragraph is gross exaggeration.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You guys remain hilarious. Listen to yourselves without the "my baby is perfect" thoughts in your head.

"If you drive it like a panel van with no rear windows, you can learn to get used to it if you just position the mirrors properly". or "I've driven worse".


It's a thing guys and for some it's a problem. GM will never share the "reasons for not buying". In fact GM has historically been bad at even addressing it internally. But being able to see out of the car is what make the car feel more open. It's a feeling. And people buy cars on feelings.

Name another product you would consider buying that when you first used it your impression was negative and someone tried to convince you "you'll get used to it".

Also there is a HUGE difference between Direct Vision and Indirect Vision (mirrors and cameras).

I do some of this for a living guys, even wrote a thesis on it years ago. It's a thing.

It is NOT a “thing”. It’s in people’s heads. If the visibility was so bad it wouldn’t have passed federal requirements for public sale.

Good Lord get a life. You’re acting like a 5 year old.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by fastball

It is NOT a “thing”. It’s in people’s heads. If the visibility was so bad it wouldn’t have passed federal requirements for public sale.

Good Lord get a life. You’re acting like a 5 year old.

Wow! Simply wow. Resorting to personal attacks in a technical conversation.

Go ahead and review MVSS 111. You will note it is for indirect vision or mirrors. The complaint in pretty much every review that you seem to want to discount is about direct vision.

Again, a technical discussion with experience in the matter. Not slinging opinions or insults.

Again, just because it's ok for you doesn't mean it's ok for others and you should be open minded enough to understand there are, in fact, other views on visibility. But I'm guessing that you resorted to insults that you aren't able to accept others view points.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Wow! Simply wow. Resorting to personal attacks in a technical conversation.

Go ahead and review MVSS 111. You will note it is for indirect vision or mirrors. The complaint in pretty much every review that you seem to want to discount is about direct vision.

Again, a technical discussion with experience in the matter. Not slinging opinions or insults.

Again, just because it's ok for you doesn't mean it's ok for others and you should be open minded enough to understand there are, in fact, other views on visibility. But I'm guessing that you resorted to insults that you aren't able to accept others view points.

Some people are simply more skilled drivers and can deal with a high beltline much better than others. I have absolutely no issues with forward visibility in this car. Not all drivers are equal.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by gpskinzhut

I agree there are limitations that one shouldn't stick their head in the sand and ignore, but this paragraph is gross exaggeration.

I’m sure the first part of the paragraph was tongue in cheek.

[zx9rmal]

Geez, someone has a differing opinion and, bam, gets slammed. Not a good look, but I digress.

Is it an issue? Absolutely. TO SOME, not to others. There is no right or wrong. If someone is uncomfortable with it, they don't buy it. What's the issue? Because they don't sing the praises?

The first time I checked out a '16 Gen 6, I got right out of the car, didn't even start it, and said, "This thing is terrible. Can't see out. Feels like you're in a tank."

This was before the 1LE was released. Many months later, when the 1LE was released, I read the big Motor Trend comparo and was shocked at the results. I new I needed to take another look.

This time, I wasn't so, umm, dumb. I adjusted the mirrors properly and raised the seat to max. I'm a bit vertically challenged. Bought the car on the spot.

Is it a "thing"? Yes, for certain people. Was it even a thought for me after test driving? Absolutely not. 16 months and 12K miles. Haven't looked back, no pun intended.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

However, it's also a perception game, and I'd love to see some actual, genuine survey responses on why people chose a Mustang or a Dodge over our cars. I can imagine the higher starting price, bad dealer experience, rear seat legroom, slit-like windows and rear windshield or the small trunk opening all contribute in part, then the styling may not sit well with millennials, but this is all just conjecture.

I’m surprised the bad dealer experience doesn’t get brought up more often. This was a WAY bigger factor than visibility for me, and why I didn’t buy a Camaro years ago even though I loved them since the re-release in 2010 (and the ‘16-up even more so). I nearly bought an ‘18 Mustang GT about three different times before stumbling across my SS that was 2 hours away. But the GM dealers around me are SO BAD... like “oh we lost the keys for your trade in” and “I know we advertised that price online but the real cost is $6K more”. No matter how good the car is, many people just won’t deal with the lies and drama, it’s just not worth it.

[stephane4985]

Wow. I though I was the only one having this issue. I went to 3 GM dealers around me and it was a bad experience with the 3 of them. I went to 2 ford dealers and both were an enjoyable experience.

Good thing I am able to go pass that to get the car I really want, but still, I can see alot of people cross shopping being turn off by that.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by stephane4985

Wow. I though I was the only one having this issue. I went to 3 GM dealers around me and it was a bad experience with the 3 of them. I went to 2 ford dealers and both were an enjoyable experience.

Good thing I am able to go pass that to get the car I really want, but still, I can see alot of people cross shopping being turn off by that.

Yep, exactly my experience with the GM and Ford dealers. The GM dealers still treat people like it’s 1975 and we have no idea what invoice, holdback, or incentives are... the Ford guys were very transparent and were thousands under sticker right off the bat. My GM Card gave me thousands of reasons not to buy a Mustang though...

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by my1stchevy

"Chevrolet also plans to target buyers who might otherwise opt for a Ford Focus RS, Hyundai Veloster N, Honda Civic Type R or Kia Stinger"

Never in a million years would I have considered one of these cars over any Camaro trim...Never!!!

Some people would. I've driven the 2019 Veloster Turbo and I was surprised to enjoy it more than the Mustang Ecoboost. I'm not a fan of FWD, but the shorter wheelbase is fun and it has a better handling feel. The Focus RS and CTR received great press. How many people know the Camaro V6 1LE is faster around a road course than the RS (probably even the base/non-1LE) and similar to the CTR for a lot less money?

GM's car allocation formula sucks too. When I look at local dealerships, they have a lot of high level models, even for the SS and not a lot lower options models. eg. If I search in an area containing 22M people, there are no base SS 1SS models out there. They do weird things with pricing. Last month they had $4k off (CDN=$3k USD) for cash purchases for all cars. This month 1LS models don't have it, but 1LT do. The V6 is the better base engine, but they have very few of them out there and when they do they're in automatics and with $10k of options.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

..

Like seeing where you're going? Then the Camaro isn't for you. Outward visibility is so limited that it would offend Ray Charles. ...

BS. It isn't "good", but it isn't so horrible that its completely unsafe "switch lanes on a prayer" type of visibility that some people would like for you to believe. Complete non-sense.

Originally Posted by gpskinzhut

I agree there are limitations that one shouldn't stick their head in the sand and ignore, but this paragraph is gross exaggeration.

Exactly.

We all know it IS an issue, and it does affect peoples opinions = sales, but I've driven worse. My wife used to have a 2008 Eclipse. That car is a "kid" car, yet the visibility in that thing was just as bad but I never once read a complaint about it on line.

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

Some people are simply more skilled drivers and can deal with a high beltline much better than others. I have absolutely no issues with forward visibility in this car. Not all drivers are equal.

You are correct, but this is also ignoring a real issue. Although I happen to enjoy the high beltline and the looks it gives, GM could design the next gen to have a slightly better outward view while still keeping the car as low as the current Camaro / Mustang.