2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500 650 HP! How will it stack up against the ZL1?

[Go_Fast]

[QUOTE=HEMI DAVE;4036817]Pondering whether to use the supercharger they have been testing.....

.....or just dropping in the blowerless V10 which they have already tested in a Challenger...........ohhh.....

....and thanking GM and Ford for showing us their hand so we know what to shoot for

MOPAR will play


Cool Vid.

[SRT8Tech]

Yeah, thats what I thought would happen. The SS was the top dog in the GM department until the ZL1 came out so it really wasnt comparing apples to oranges. Its not Dodges fault that GM didnt have 3 different levels of the Camaro like the Challenger. Oh well, let the excuses begin......................................But, Dodge will do something.

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by serpent

hmmm didn't you used to own a DHG bullitt???
wondering where you went

Huh? I have nerver owned a Mustang. 95 Z28 vert, 98 SS, 99 TA and 11 SS vert.

Originally Posted by den318

Ford announced the Spec just as price of ZL1 is released. I think Ford might try to pull another one here. They will release all the performance numbers just as the ZL1 gets to the showroom. I am afraid the performance number will not make the ZL1 look good again.

It worked and they will probably do it again.

Originally Posted by kcobean

I have just two words for ya.....



Lipstick....Pig.

I doesn't matter. The ZL is still a way sexier car that will have enough performance to satisfy anyone on the track or the street.

What's funny is the Camaro is the fatter car, so I think we are driving the pigs.

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Pill, Welcome back.

The Lingenfelter / Pedders L/28 will take on the winner of the ZL1 vs. GT500/650 any time and any place

What are some of the performance numbers out of this L28 and price?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

What are some of the performance numbers out of this L28 and price?

Both are not yet set.

There were a lot of discussions between Lingenfelter and Pedders about building the L/28 over a period of time. By the time the project was green lighted we had less than a month to build the car. We tried to shake her down before the event, but Michigan weather was against us. We ran a handful of laps in 40 degree weather with a 40 degree wet track. We drove just enough to know it ran. At the OPTIMA we had the typical issues you would expect from a green car. Our driver had never logged a hot lap in the L/28. He was faster in each lap. Our road course time was good for 9th fastest at 1:51. Not too bad considering the difficulties we had with the 3 / 4 and 4 / 3 shifts and a few other items. Now that we have had the opportunity to run on a dry track, LPE will address the fine tuning of the L/28. I have some fine tuning to do with the suspension on the L/28. We'll find a warm weather track to run and post up the final numbers after the holidays.

To put this all in perspective, Eric from Torq ran a really well dialed in modified 5th Gen at the OPTIMA. Eric is a very good driver and he may have more track time in a 5th Gen on track outside of some GM test driver. Eric drove his 5th Gen cross country for this The difficulty for me is that I found out that Eric is a class act. Long story short we were 8.5 seconds faster than his 5th Gen. The next fastest 5th Gen was well behind Eric along with the other Modern Muscle cars.

We know exactly what we have to do to bring the L/28 to a fully polished finished product. We have a conservative estimate of what we will gain and an optimistic estimate. Reality will be some where in between. If we only manage to reach the conservative range of improvements we will need witnesses, video and data logging for documentation or most will not believe the results.



Had we started just two weeks earlier, if only we had a dry test day, shoulda, coulda, woulda. We ran what we ran... until we run again

Lingenfelter L/28 Camaro

• LPE LS7 Engine, 681HP @ 6700 RPM / 588 LB/FT @5600
• LPE Dry Sump Oiling System
• Tremec 6060 6 Speed Manual Transmission
• LPE Dual Disc Clutch and Flywheel
• LPE Clutch Return Spring Kit
• MTI Short Throw Shifter
• LPE Leather Shift Knob
• LPE 9.5” Differential, 373 Ratio with no preload TracRite® GT – Helical Gear Limited Slip
• Driveshaft Shop HD 1400HP Axle Shafts
• LPE HD 2 Piece Driveshaft
• LPE Twin Fuel Pump Module with Electronic Control
• LPE Power Steering Cooler
• Be Cool Radiator
• American Racing Headers
• Custom Side Exit Exhaust with Magnaflow Mufflers
• LPE / Pedders SportsRyder Supercar Coil-over Suspension System, Sway Bars, Complete Bushing Package
• Brembo Brake System. Front 15” 2 Piece Rotor with 6 Piston Caliper, Rear 14” 2 Piece Rotor with 4 Piston caliper
• Forgeline Wheels, 20”X10.5”
• Michelin Tires, 305/35ZR20
• Lingenfelter Signature Body Kit, including front splitter, side skirts, rear diffuser, and rear spoiler
• Specter Werkes Extractor Hood
• Lingenfelter L/28 Graphics
• RPM Six Point Roll Bar
• Corbeau TRS Leather Seats and 5 Point Belts
• Lingenfelter CNC Pedal Pads

[bmwdon]

I've got both, and I swear the challenger is a fatter car, need to break out the measuring tape one day....but you may be right.

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

What's funny is the Camaro is the fatter car, so I think we are driving the pigs.

I hate the sound of most V10's (atleast the viper exhaust note)...something just wierd about it.

[QUOTE=Go_Fast;4038263]

Originally Posted by HEMI DAVE

.....or just dropping in the blowerless V10 which they have already tested in a Challenger...........ohhh.....MOPAR will play

history shows since the 60's, in relation to the pony wars/muscle cars, that gm/ford were always the "affordable" brands to go with, the hemi's were always in some elitist price scale. I don't know if it's the mindset of chrysler, or if the tech on the cars is so much more expensive to recreate, but to see the comparable models from chevy/ford/dodge sitting there and the dodge comes in $10K more (even if it has more doodads and such)....there will always be that monkey wrench thrown into the arguement, from either side. argued either way.

Originally Posted by SRT8Tech

Oh well, let the excuses begin......................................But, Dodge will do something.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by big hammer

it's also significantly more money then a camaro ss, and actually closer to the price of a gt 500 or zl1. so it's in third place there. and the challenger rt which is more price compared to the ss or gt is also in 3rd.

Base price is $10000 less than a ZL1, only around 4k more than a loaded 2SS, which is required to even come close to the SRTs features (still lacking push button start, touch screen stereo, SRT heater steering wheel, shift paddles (on autos), specific seats, and the 13 GT500 style 2 mode electronic bilstien sspension.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by Stew

Base price is $10000 less than a ZL1, only around 4k more than a loaded 2SS, which is required to even come close to the SRTs features (still lacking push button start, touch screen stereo, SRT heater steering wheel, shift paddles (on autos), specific seats, and the 13 GT500 style 2 mode electronic bilstien sspension.

lol serious? you are comparing base prices to loaded models?

were comparing perormance here. a 1ss is miles cheaper than an srt8. the srt8 is a competitor for the gt500 zl1, so it fails. nice car but it doesn't really know where its market is.


and seriously who gives a flying **** about push button start.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by tobalt

Chevy throwing the challenge was a response to Farley's “I’m going to beat Chevrolet on the head with a baseball bat. And I’m going to enjoy it.” comment back in August. His ego is writing checks his body couldn't cash, and he knows it, especially after Chevy pretty much said, "Come on, lets do this." and his only response is "Aahhh, nah, it's ok."

I agree, it was definitely a shot at Jim Farley for his marketing aggression. There is simply no room for just plain "clever" marketing anymore, Farley (and Ford) decided that "cut-throat" marketing was a better approach (and it was). Farley doesn't care if Team Camaro's children have to eat, what he does care about is strangling their baby in it's crib... and that was exactly what that 650, 600 and 200 announcement was. After reviewing about 1/4 of the articles written on the new car, I became discouraged combing through almost 500 articles. I decided to look at the ZL1's press (about 80 articles at the time) and found that even in the ZL1's articles and video, the ZL1 was overshadowed by GT500 comments. This is a huge NO GO...

No doubt Chevrolet had to do some quick patchwork on the spot so, a nice letter from Al O and a challenge from Joel Ewanick a day later is a good start. When people in those types of positions speak freely about the competition, it is not their personal opinion or individual challenge... It is Mark Ruess and Bob Lutz saying "Nobody sleeps tonight until you fix this... Stop this cars press". It was stressful no doubt and the wrong move would have been to just stand there and let Ford hit them... so, we get to see some movement.

However, Ford had members present at the show that could have at least made a decision (although on the spot decisions are usually bad unless your the president). GM chose to make a suggestion to Detroit News and in turn, they asked probably one of the many Ford reps in attendance that could not give them an answer... Mark Fields, Jamal Hameedi or Jost Capito probably could have gave them a better answer... besides, isn't there easier ways to duke it out other than racing these two cars at Nurburgring in the middle of winter? Asking Mr. Hameedi or Mr. Capito probably would have resulted in a counter challenge of "Put your shoes on and get to Mazda Raceway". If Nurburgring is the "road course of road courses" then a true track car should have no problem at any track.

There are still quite a few shows left in the auto show season and that was officially SVT's first shot of the season, GM has pretty much an empty gun after the convertible, pricing, and performance numbers were released. In my opinion, the ZL1 was announced way too early in Chicago on February 9th. Racing at the nearest track under great conditions and fantastic weather would only confirm the obvious results way too early, potentially destroying the "track car" marketing scheme that surrounds the ZL1. A real race at the Ring wouldn't be possible now until the 3rd week of March, when the track is technically open. Sadly, Nurburgring is the only number that they have left to fight with.

What if the ZL1 couldn't reproduce its 7:41 now that it is uncaged and finalized? Sometimes you have to think before you speak and give yourself a minute to calm down before you get your boss in trouble... I think Jim Farley learned that first hand in August and he won't be made a mark of by some last minute damage control marketing.

[bmwdon]

So when the srt8 comes out supercharged, does that mean it's then in the gt500/zl1 category and the non-s/c model gets bumped down? or does that make it a contenter with baby lambo's, aston's and ferrari's because of it's price?

Originally Posted by big hammer

lol serious? you are comparing base prices to loaded models?

were comparing perormance here. a 1ss is miles cheaper than an srt8. the srt8 is a competitor for the gt500 zl1, so it fails. nice car but it doesn't really know where its market is.


and seriously who gives a flying **** about push button start.

[big hammer]

ford fanbois need to settle down and step back from drugs. ford is reacting to chevy here. and the biggest difference here is that the gt500 is fords #1 performance car. they can and will throw all there chips into it and not step on any toes of any other car in their lineup.

chevy is different. the camaro is their "middle performer". they wont just throw more perormance at the zl1 in fear that they they will infringe on their own corvette sales.

so when building the zl1 what do they do? it needed to be a better performer than other cars in it's devision, yet not so much that people shy away from the vette because the zl1 needs to be priced accordingly.

so what do they give us? a 580 hp, 'ring burning monster that is much better performing than either the current gt500 or srt8. and yet it still wont quite compete with the more expensive z06. this is the position they needed to be in, and they succeeded. faster than the competition, but not faster than themselves. mission accomplished.

so ford comes out and WHAMMO releases the plans to build a 650hp gt500. pretty sweet! this will no doubt be the fastest muscle car on the market at this point.

now ford fans seem to think that chevy cant compete with that. really? the ls9 is just sitting there and is a mere few hp shy of surpassing the 650hp of the new 5.8. if you dont think that gm can do it then you are retarded. gm engineers could do it with ease. the problem comes from the bean counters and marketing. they are the ones that decide how much hp the zl1 gets, not engineering.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by bmwdon

So when the srt8 comes out supercharged, does that mean it's then in the gt500/zl1 category and the non-s/c model gets bumped down? or does that make it a contenter with baby lambo's, aston's and ferrari's because of it's price?

butthurt noted, and dismissed.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by SRT8Tech

Wow, how misinformed can anybody be. The 392 beats the Camaro SS stock for stock hands down and its damn close to the GT500 stock for stock. Just sayin.

Only a dodge guy would think a 470hp car that weighs 4200 lbs could be damn close to one that is 3800 lbs and 550hp.

Stock for stock yes...but only because the GT500 doesnt hook up. Put a tire on both cars....it will be very ugly.

The 392 beats an SS hands down when it has 2-3 mph on it in trap speed? (sometimes). And it has only beat the SS best time by .3? I would strongly disagree. Sounds about as fast as a 5.0 stock for stock. Maybe a tick better.

But the 392 is "damn close" to a GT500 when it is at least 5mph behind? I strongly disagree their as well.

The 392 performs right where is it priced. Between the SS and GT500...but closer to the SS.

Nice cars. I would own one if their was no camaro or mustang.

[bmwdon]

nope, trying to understand your thinking on how it changes when the new top of the line, if it ever happens...happens.

Originally Posted by big hammer

butthurt noted, and dismissed.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by thePill

I agree, it was definitely a shot at Jim Farley for his marketing aggression. There is simply no room for just plain "clever" marketing anymore, Farley (and Ford) decided that "cut-throat" marketing was a better approach (and it was). Farley doesn't care if Team Camaro's children have to eat, what he does care about is strangling their baby in it's crib... and that was exactly what that 650, 600 and 200 announcement was. After reviewing about 1/4 of the articles written on the new car, I became discouraged combing through almost 500 articles. I decided to look at the ZL1's press (about 80 articles at the time) and found that even in the ZL1's articles and video, the ZL1 was overshadowed by GT500 comments. This is a huge NO GO...

No doubt Chevrolet had to do some quick patchwork on the spot so, a nice letter from Al O and a challenge from Joel Ewanick a day later is a good start. When people in those types of positions speak freely about the competition, it is not their personal opinion or individual challenge... It is Mark Ruess and Bob Lutz saying "Nobody sleeps tonight until you fix this... Stop this cars press". It was stressful no doubt and the wrong move would have been to just stand there and let Ford hit them... so, we get to see some movement.

However, Ford had members present at the show that could have at least made a decision (although on the spot decisions are usually bad unless your the president). GM chose to make a suggestion to Detroit News and in turn, they asked probably one of the many Ford reps in attendance that could not give them an answer... Mark Fields, Jamal Hameedi or Jost Capito probably could have gave them a better answer... besides, isn't there easier ways to duke it out other than racing these two cars at Nurburgring in the middle of winter? Asking Mr. Hameedi or Mr. Capito probably would have resulted in a counter challenge of "Put your shoes on and get to Mazda Raceway". If Nurburgring is the "road course of road courses" then a true track car should have no problem at any track.

There are still quite a few shows left in the auto show season and that was officially SVT's first shot of the season, GM has pretty much an empty gun after the convertible, pricing, and performance numbers were released. In my opinion, the ZL1 was announced way too early in Chicago on February 9th. Racing at the nearest track under great conditions and fantastic weather would only confirm the obvious results way too early, potentially destroying the "track car" marketing scheme that surrounds the ZL1. A real race at the Ring wouldn't be possible now until the 3rd week of March, when the track is technically open. Sadly, Nurburgring is the only number that they have left to fight with.

What if the ZL1 couldn't reproduce its 7:41 now that it is uncaged and finalized? Sometimes you have to think before you speak and give yourself a minute to calm down before you get your boss in trouble... I think Jim Farley learned that first hand in August and he won't be made a mark of by some last minute damage control marketing.

For the first time ever, I think you and I are in total agreement