[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

We're also talking about a car that will come with standard CCBs, possibly carbon wheels with barely street legal racing tires, insane aero and possibly a unique engine.

At the same price, you get a Z06 that is effectively a wide body Stingray with a blower and will weigh around 200 lbs of the Z/28.

To equip the Z06 to similar levels of performance equipment, you are pushing $110k.

All good points, I just don't think there is a market for 80 to 100 Camaro. That's just me. And like I said, I get that its a halo model, hopefully it has tech trickle down to make the lower models better. I get that. I just can not picture a Camaro or Mustang with MSRP of 80-100

(and personally I think that Z06 would still be faster than the Camaro lol while having the creature comforts of 100K car lol but thats an argument for a different day)

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by shaffe

All good points, I just don't think there is a market for 80 to 100 Camaro. That's just me. And like I said, I get that its a halo model, hopefully it has tech trickle down to make the lower models better. I get that. I just can not picture a Camaro or Mustang with MSRP of 80-100

(and personally I think that Z06 would still be faster than the Camaro lol while having the creature comforts of 100K car lol but thats an argument for a different day)

I get what you are saying but the M4 still costs substantially more than an SS, yet doesn't really deliver much for the money.

After a few years of delivering world class performance, an $80k Camaro or Mustang won't be so shocking.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

I have 2 words for you, "Ford GT" is it rely worth 400K its only a ford.

[TheSpectre]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

I am astonished this community does not get it. On every statistical measurement within the marketing field, the Z/28 was a absolutely grand slam for GM in what it did to elevate the Camaro brand and sell the lower tier trims.

I'd like to see proof of this. The 5th gen sales nosedived in its last year. The 6th gen sales haven't rebounded. What is this proof of "elevating the brand" and selling lower tier trims you speak of?

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by TheSpectre

I'd like to see proof of this. The 5th gen sales nosedived in its last year. The 6th gen sales haven't rebounded. What is this proof of "elevating the brand" and selling lower tier trims you speak of?

The Q rating for the Camaro is the proof. For a 50 year old brand to have double digit growth in their Q rating is very rare. I owned a marketing company for almost 20 years and I can tell you that the growth in the Q rating of the Camaro for GM between year 2012-2014 was worth millions to their bottom line sales. When you dive deeper into the #'s that generates the Q rating score, the Q rating has a small bump in 2008 when then new Camaro was announced but hit double digits when the Z/28 was announced as World's Best Driver's Car in 2014. That type of marketing is invaluable, even if they would have never sold a single Z/28 to the public, the designation as the WBDC and the brand expansion attributed to that designation MORE than paid for the R&D and manufacturing of the small amount of Z/28's built. The sale of a specific model is not reflective of that model's overall impact to the brand....Marketing 101.

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

After a few years of delivering world class performance, an $80k Camaro or Mustang won't be so shocking.

[SpookShow'84]

World class will be here when they can launch a new generation without a dozen problems that have even traditional gm buyers waiting a few years to get their feet wet. There shouldn't have been even one thread that went more than two pages before the car was replaced in a "no questions, no hassle" fashion for cars that were missing paint.

[newb]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

I want the fastest possible Camaro. Period. As long as the price is justifiable against the current competition (not historical precedence), I could not care less the price they put on it.

Here is what I think the problem is.....if GM called the top dog performance Camaro the "Camaro R Type" (borrowing a Jaguar reference) then I think less people would care. BUT, because they want a Z/28, even though 90% of them will never track the car which is the intention of the Z/28, they get pissed off that they can't afford it, completely ignoring the purpose of the car and the UNDENIAL value the car offers in the segment it is meant to compete which is NOT the segment the SS sells into.

The Gen5 was a huge success for GM. The Q rating (look it up if you don't know what that means) for the Camaro has increased by double digits globally with the introduction of the Gen5 Z/28 which is very impressive for a brand approaching 50 years old. I have a very close friend who owns a Chevy dealership in south Florida who has a 2014 on his show room floor specifically to "sell the SS model". He told me that when he first got it he would have 25-30 people a week come into the dealership just to see the Z/28 and he would guess that 20% of them ended up buying a RS or SS based on the Z/28 getting them to the lot. He said the Z/28 on his floor has been the best advertising he has had in 32 years of owning the dealership. He said that the Z/28 has been incredibly successful for his dealership in selling the Camaro brand....the definition of a "halo" model. This is what everyone is missing. The Z/28 was about the "art of the possible" with the Camaro and sold many more cars just for the simple fact it showed what could be done with the platform.

I am astonished this community does not get it. On every statistical measurement within the marketing field, the Z/28 was a absolutely grand slam for GM in what it did to elevate the Camaro brand and sell the lower tier trims.

I think you called it right here. The same thing the Hellcat did for dodge. Although they did sell them all, the dealers got a huge boost of traffic just because of lookers. Many of which went home with a lesser model. Never underestimate the importance of advertising. Especially where a models performance makes them a household name. Wether that hall model sells or not.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

World class will be here when they can launch a new generation without a dozen problems that have even traditional gm buyers waiting a few years to get their feet wet. There shouldn't have been even one thread that went more than two pages before the car was replaced in a "no questions, no hassle" fashion for cars that were missing paint.

http://jalopnik.com/why-porsche-911-...off-1567011597

Someone better tell Porsche their 911 GT3 isn't world class because of the engine fires.

[SpookShow'84]

If they burn to the ground or people are afraid to drive them, they're not world class, at least not in GT3 trim. That's Porche's problem though, I thought the were talking about trying the justify $100k for a camaro.

If the Z28 is built on the same platform as the ss what stops the aftermarket from replicating the components that make it different for less money. Parts are parts. When I built my mcss I spent $12k along with some elbow grease to have a car that would embarrass the camaro's that came out of gm for that year. I just don't see the Z28 badge bringing that much prestige to make the car be held in the same esteem as the perceived status and exclusivity of a European super car. The exotics look good on paper but most of the people I know could care less about them. They are so rare on the street it's like seeing a unicorn. In all practicality they don't exist, except for being in a magazine or website. Someone, somewhere has to have actually saw one driving for it to be cool and anything other than a museum piece. At $100k that's what the z would be. Guys that can afford one at that cost probably won't be driving them very much. I'll also add that i have never saw a gen5 Z28 anywhere other than a dealership lobby, and I was there to see the gen6 ss and found it by accident, 15k under sticker.

[TheSpectre]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

The Q rating for the Camaro is the proof. For a 50 year old brand to have double digit growth in their Q rating is very rare. I owned a marketing company for almost 20 years and I can tell you that the growth in the Q rating of the Camaro for GM between year 2012-2014 was worth millions to their bottom line sales. When you dive deeper into the #'s that generates the Q rating score, the Q rating has a small bump in 2008 when then new Camaro was announced but hit double digits when the Z/28 was announced as World's Best Driver's Car in 2014. That type of marketing is invaluable, even if they would have never sold a single Z/28 to the public, the designation as the WBDC and the brand expansion attributed to that designation MORE than paid for the R&D and manufacturing of the small amount of Z/28's built. The sale of a specific model is not reflective of that model's overall impact to the brand....Marketing 101.

But what good is this Q rating if it does not eventually reflect in the sales, since that is (quite literally) the bottom line? Are you saying this Q rating if the Camaro will lead to increased sales down the road, or that it doesn't matter at all? Because if it's the former, again, links to proof. And if it's the latter.... I truly don't get it.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

If they burn to the ground or people are afraid to drive them, they're not world class, at least not in GT3 trim. That's Porche's problem though, I thought the were talking about trying the justify $100k for a camaro.

If the Z28 is built on the same platform as the ss what stops the aftermarket from replicating the components that make it different for less money. Parts are parts. When I built my mcss I spent $12k along with some elbow grease to have a car that would embarrass the camaro's that came out of gm for that year. I just don't see the Z28 badge bringing that much prestige to make the car be held in the same esteem as the perceived status and exclusivity of a European super car. The exotics look good on paper but most of the people I know could care less about them. They are so rare on the street it's like seeing a unicorn. In all practicality they don't exist, except for being in a magazine or website. Someone, somewhere has to have actually saw one driving for it to be cool and anything other than a museum piece. At $100k that's what the z would be. Guys that can afford one at that cost probably won't be driving them very much. I'll also add that i have never saw a gen5 Z28 anywhere other than a dealership lobby, and I was there to see the gen6 ss and found it by accident, 15k under sticker.

The Z/28 is not going to cost $100k

Sure, you can throw on some aftermarket parts and beat an arguably underperforming car but I have a hard time believing the average guy can take an SS and touch a Z/28 for anything less than the difference between the two and be as reliable. The engineering that goes into a car like that takes an entire team years to do. Not to mention the fact that GM guarantees the car to run for years. If you happen to beat the car, I don't imagine many people can promise it will run for years problem free. Not to mention you don't have to comply with emissions and crash regulations while doing it.

[SpookShow'84]

That's what the op said in his first sentence in the thread so that's where the $100k number came from, it probably won't be that high but I'm just giving reasons why that number is so highly impractical for a Z28. $65K +/- is enough scratch to make a 1ss do everything a Z28 would if that's how it was priced. Even with the last gen, $33k would give you a good enough car for the average Joe that the cars would not be noticeably different.

[KarFan]

Camaro is still affordable but the V8 has moved to a premium level. With impending CAFE this is the future. Enthusiasts are going to have some tough choices ahead as the V8 power is going to get more rare.. GM has started to try to get enthusiasts a choice as evidenced by the V6 1LE.