Kenne Bell vs Whipple

[HufferSS]

Originally Posted by SC2150

The KB makes a ton of power, and curing the high IAT's is easy....

Lol....you are persistent.

[SC2150]

We have found the KB runs hotter than the other brands we install, but the cure is easy and constantly keeps it all cool....so you are correct on the heat as it comes.

[Matt@KB]

Glad you like the kit. Let us know if we can be of any help. Whether it be Ford or GM, many of the engine builders we know use Livernois, engines and/or components and tuning. They definitely have their act together.

Originally Posted by midgard

I'm not going to get into the temp discussion........but the 3.6KB is one beast when it comes to power.

My car only got 2 tries at the track a few weeks ago (mainly due to the bracket racing going on, etc). When you got this much power, you really need to have everything tweaked and tuned with regards to the transmission and running it at the track.


On the first run, with a very avg 1.71 60' time, the car had a massive spinout at around 125 feet give or take. It caused the car to hit the rev limiter thus shifting it back down to first (all this seemed like it took possibly a sec off the time), the car then proceeded to fly down the track until sometime after the 1000' mark and shifted into overdrive....and seemingly slowing the car to the end of the run....given all that it still had a 10.6.

Since then they have changed the shift points, and limited the T/B response to hopefully nearly eliminate the spinning going from 1st to 2nd (and the next few shifts as well).

Kudos to the 3.6 KB and the livernois tuning team. Not only is it the nicest looking set-up under the engine, but the sound of this car is second to no other build that I've seen or heard. That along with the fact that my car is probably the only one in the top 10 thats hasn't had at least one transmission problem or Engine blow-up.

Given all that I feel like I've got the best set-up in the country and the luckiest to have Livernois on my team.

[DarricSS]

Originally Posted by Matt@KB

Glad you like the kit. Let us know if we can be of any help. Whether it be Ford or GM, many of the engine builders we know use Livernois, engines and/or components and tuning. They definitely have their act together.

So your telling us that to to be happy with a KB blower on a 5th Gen Camaro, we have to leave our car at a shop for over a year and spend upwards of a 100 grand...

[honeybucket99]

Originally Posted by DarricSS

So your telling us that to to be happy with a KB blower on a 5th Gen Camaro, we have to leave our car at a shop for over a year and spend upwards of a 100 grand...

Actually, you don't have to do anything like that. My car was at the shop for a few days for the install and tune. No problems after that. Logically, when two equal kits are installed, and one (mine) is crazy great, and the other is not working right, I think you have to look at the difference to find the problem.

[old motorhead]

Originally Posted by GMRULZ

and here I thought you guys were actually going to fix the issue. That leads me to one conclusion the problem must be the intercooler (not the heat exchanger), way to expensive to redesign that and the lower manifold to house it, after already spending all those investment dollars on R&D and tooling and manufacturing. Otherwise, I think you guys would fix it vs what you just posted up. I guess maybe after you recoup enough money you may redesign it but until then you need to sell units to recoup the investment. That at least I can understand, and understand the reluctance to admit to the issue. there are KB owners and independent shops telling you there is a problem and they have data to back it up. Honestly it makes no difference on my car if the hood is up or down I have a competely enclosed air box w/ a lid and a scoop in the lower grille bringing air into the box. Most of the Whipple and Magnusson owners on this website have some sort of CAI on the car and many do not take air from the engine compartment. They are also making 500-800rwhp on a 4 inch intake tube w/ no problem, however yours requires a 4.5 inch intake tube to make 500-800rwhp, but yet other shops have tested 4 inch tube on your kit w/ no drop in power... and better driveability at least w/ the automatic cars.

So to recap, you believe you do not have higher than average IAT`s and a 4.5 inch intake tube makes more power than the 4 inch in that power range w/ no driveability concerns for the auto cars... I guess we will leave it up to the consumer to decide for themselves.

That sums it up pretty well. That's a shame. More options is better. Doesn't sound like this is one of them...

[Andy@Livernois]

Originally Posted by DarricSS

So your telling us that to to be happy with a KB blower on a 5th Gen Camaro, we have to leave our car at a shop for over a year and spend upwards of a 100 grand...

well, truth be told Midgard had his car back multiple times throughout the build, so stating something like that isn't entirely factual. Also, we added numerous things along the way, had to engineer multiple changes to the kit and build, plus midgard and us both wanted to go to the track. With how rainy the spring was here it made it next to impossible to ever go. After months of trying to find a dry day at the track we finally decided together that we just weren't meant to run it at the track. So, again, it's not all of the story. Also, the pricing is quite a ways off (unless you are counting with the car).

Knowing all that we know now, and what has to be done this would be a 2 month long build even with the fabrication of all of the unique parts. But when you are making major design changes, with multiple aspects of the build, and are fighting weather it definitely can extend things out. Which is why we would stop at certain phases of the build to give the car back.

[mikepage0007]

matt, i was not gonna post, but all this nonsense you keep posting is getting old..fact 1-NO maggie owner or performance installation/dyno shops are compaining of maggie iats...fact 2 ther are at least 3 maggies out there for every kb...means 3 times more members and owners but still the fact they outniumber kb 3-1 no iat issues..fact 2. less whipple owners , but also no complaint from any perf shop or owners of high iats. fact 3 .almost every kb owner or performance shop.{even kb shops behind the scenes}has told you that they run above average iat , at least anyone not driving in antartica..fact 4 ..iats in the 180 f range and nore are timing pulling hp robbing superchargers....and any person who tells you to run 100% straight non lubrictaing water thru there i/c-pump/he...should be suspended for stupidity...kb is a excellent sc for the track if you are looking at 1000hp track car and want to run ice tanks....but thats not what we want..if kb wants to be respected as a top sc in the 5th gen camaro products, then you better wake the hell up and smell the coffee...because if you took all the members here on this site and gave them all this forced induction info that has been accurate / verified by unbiased people on there own time.. and offered them there choice -free-no charge-..maggie/wipple/kb....you would have a hard time , giving them away...and if you don,t believe me...set up a poll.....i am a kb owner and actually waited on the sidelines for the 1st unit , ...but i must say, running 50/50 meth @ 9lbs boost and still can,t hardly stay under 200f in 92f ambient air is b*s*t..go back to the draqwing brd as many more camaro,s are being built and modded everyday..and fix the iat issue-rebuild your brand in the camaro community, or do nothing and watch your brand disappear thru the camaro community...this is my opinion..but i am also a company owner and understand business better then most...when every sc owner would condsider going to another brand and they consider yours last of the pick, that should sound a alarm...this is all i,m gonna say as i believe this post is just a bunch of hot air { just like kb iat} find the iat issue and fix it b4 it cost you the chevy crowd..these are my opinions and while some other kb owners share them with me...i have replied for the last time on this matter...its off to either cool this puppy or get a whipple

[mikepage0007]

Originally Posted by Andy@Livernois

well, truth be told Midgard had his car back multiple times throughout the build, so stating something like that isn't entirely factual. Also, we added numerous things along the way, had to engineer multiple changes to the kit and build, plus midgard and us both wanted to go to the track. With how rainy the spring was here it made it next to impossible to ever go. After months of trying to find a dry day at the track we finally decided together that we just weren't meant to run it at the track. So, again, it's not all of the story. Also, the pricing is quite a ways off (unless you are counting with the car).

Knowing all that we know now, and what has to be done this would be a 2 month long build even with the fabrication of all of the unique parts. But when you are making major design changes, with multiple aspects of the build, and are fighting weather it definitely can extend things out. Which is why we would stop at certain phases of the build to give the car back.

just curious, i believe you are using a maggie he? what elae are you running with the kb that is not kb? kb pump? kb reservoir? i believe his kb runs a little cooler then most...trying to find component that might be making diff...you can pm me if you like to keep it private

[mcdoogle6969]

Originally Posted by red 2011 ss

Matt are you working on the l99 tube problem also?

They already have a fix for that, or at least we hope it will cure the issue. They will send out the Honeycomb straightener which my tuner said is needed for the fix. It's free of charge if your kit is having issues and you do not have this straightener, they will send it out to you.

Matt@KB sent one out to me, so we will find out soon here if it fixes it or not.

[REAPER SS]

I'm just surprised kennebell is looking past this issue. It is too many people (unbiased shops and kb customers)complaining about hot iats. Before this thread came out I was about 70% leaning toward the kennebell over the whipple and now I'm %100 that I am going to buy a whipple. I would have felt much better if kb said they were going to put out a new heat exchanger or intercooler, but oh well. It does suck for the kb owners who has to find another route to cool their kb iat.

[mikepage0007]

Originally Posted by REAPER SS

I'm just surprised kennebell is looking past this issue. It is too many people (unbiased shops and kb customers)complaining about hot iats. Before this thread came out I was about 70% leaning toward the kennebell over the whipple and now I'm %100 that I am going to buy a whipple. I would have felt much better if kb said they were going to put out a new heat exchanger or intercooler, but oh well. It does suck for the kb owners who has to find another route to cool their kb iat.

larger h.e. has been tried...that did not help, 1 gallon more fluid was also tried...that also did nothing...so come to your own conclusions...larger he and more volume water = no diff iats..whatever parts are left are the cause of higher iats..

[SC2150]

Mike....we already have the solution for any high IAT's no matter the application as you have seen first hand, but more need to implement it. I dont think the KB will be able to be more efficient w/out an auxillary way to cool it. Did you go to the track today?

[mikepage0007]

Originally Posted by SC2150

Mike....we already have the solution for any high IAT's no matter the application as you have seen first hand, but more need to implement it. I dont think the KB will be able to be more efficient w/out an auxillary way to cool it. Did you go to the track today?

no , rained out...i know the chiller is a fix, but wanted others to know what has been tested and that other kb owners are in the same boat..trying to save others from doing things that i know will not correct iats..get a lot of pm,s on this subject and other well known shops that i will not bring into this .most do kb work and installs also others..they try to remain unbiased , but can,t look past the iat issues... , don,t want to get them involved..but some are well known respected names, i will say that .but thru them i have been able to try things on my own and use there trials, that also has not worked ...we will get some logged iats at the track next friday at pbir, it will be same ambient air , same tuner for all 4 cars..there can be no crying about ANYTHING different.. no hood open bs,all have water wetter mix...same shop built all 4 cars... logged with hptuner, we also have 2 maggies running with same boost and will log them...so 2 maggies 650rwhp and 2 kb,s 650 rwhp { i,ll say this again ALL 4 CARS,BUILT TUNED AND DYNO,D ,SAME SHOP, SAME TUNER, SAME MECHANIC,SAME BOOST, ALL WITHIN 15 RWHP OF EACH OTHER} ..the whipple is getting some reconstructive surgery and will not be there...with and without the chiller on the only kb that has a chiller ...this may be the only viable option to get the temps down under 200 in florida heat...last time we logged 185 mine in a 1/4 80f april day and it was so heatsoaked , it took an hr to get back to 140....try to run quik 16 , back to back to back toback runs...did that @ pony wars against a gto for 1st place...i was so hot , i was afraid to run...