Modder's Alert! Possible bolt TQ probs - see article - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

frankwjr · 01-26-2018, 06:49 PM

Yo C-5 peeps...just ran across this article in Dragzine...http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories...ng-head-bolts/

with so many builds either in progress or getting ready to start I thought this would be a good read...Bo and I talk about the proper use of ARP lube and this article goes further...stating ARP recommends lightly SANDING the bottom of the washer to keep it from spinning...

it's the little details that make the diff! peace out and have a safe weekend!

hou30guy · 01-26-2018, 06:54 PM

Well hell arp should had done that to the washers before they left the warehouse lmao

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Bo White · 01-26-2018, 10:40 PM

I wouldnt worry with it. Ive never had an issue and neither has hundreds of thousands of others. I lightly lube the threads and lube the washers top and bottom and go to assembling.

frankwjr · 01-26-2018, 11:09 PM

...just hope yer not that 100,001 that "accidentally" pulls a bolt due to this...did ya even take the time to read the article my man?

Bo White · 01-26-2018, 11:23 PM

Like I said earlier, these heads are solid. Torqued down like an iron head.

hou30guy · 01-27-2018, 04:03 AM

Dont get soooo caught up in a article, puting heads on is only common sense to a gear head

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

frankwjr · 01-27-2018, 08:09 AM

again..did you even take the time to read the article? This is a NEW problem due specifically to the newer materials used being harder and the machining process leaving a much smoother surface..therefore the washer can POSSIBLY spin causing a over torque situation...even my title said POSSIBLE problems...

why would a magazine take the time to write a article and SPECIFICALLY quote the manufacture recommendations!?!?!? Bo, you even mentioned that the new heads felt "harder" when you installed them..and the problem isn't then head but the over TQ pulling the F@%KING bolt/stud FROM THE BLOCK!

Maybe some folks know better than Steve Brule at Westech and the ARP rep who said-- "That’s when I remembered a discussion I had recently had with ARP’s Chris Raschke in which he told me that ARP had recently received tech calls about pulling threads out of the block and even some head bolt failures that appeared to be from over-torquing.

I guess in the future I should just keep it to myself and have a laugh if I ever run across a situation above...but I'm not a dick...peace out.

BTW - just READ the article...tks.

hou30guy · 01-27-2018, 08:11 AM

You big mad or lil mad lmao

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

go_go_gadget88 · 01-27-2018, 08:22 AM

Interesting article, Frank. I have some sandpaper laying around. Looks like it wouldn't hurt to rough up the bottom side of washer a bit! Probably doesn't happen often..but with my luck, I'd be that one out of thousands that pulls the threads out of my block

frankwjr · 01-27-2018, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hou30guy

You big mad or lil mad lmao

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

not at all...but I like anyone who takes the time to pass a little relevant info along for those to do what they wish with...get's blown off out of hand when it is extremely obvious that the basic courtesy of reviewing the info before commenting on it was even done.

Dylan1214 · 01-27-2018, 09:25 AM

Hmm.. interesting

frankwjr · 01-28-2018, 09:59 AM

so I ran across another thread over on LS1TECH re: this same issue https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-solution.html...from a year ago! Seems it took ARP that long to confirm what the problem actually is and come up with a "fix"...I would not be at all surprised to actually see this become a "factory" spec...OEM torque to yield bolt washers already have little dimples on the bottom...hmmm...wonder what they are there for???

So hopefully this will save somebody grief/money/time in the future and if it happens to somebody...then you have something to go on...peace out!

Russell James · 01-28-2018, 10:25 AM

I think it's good info, I've seen several people break ARP head bolts on install. Who knows if they didn't lube them right, or a bad bolt. I know the instructions that come with the LS bolt kit says to use their ultra lube on the threads and only under the bolt head. If you followed that, should be fine. But, now I'm definitely going to be scuffing the bottoms of washers.

The GM head bolts are quite different. They are not black coated, and come with their own stuff already applied to the threads. And those you do a multi step angle tq process to get the tq to yield stretch correct. The ARPs are just 2 step Tq. I've never had a problem with either the OE or ARP, but will definitely follow this tip on the ARPs from now on. Will be interesting to see if they change their washers.

go_go_gadget88 · 02-09-2018, 11:51 AM

Wanted to come back to this with an update. I started putting my heads on yesterday, and noticed that my ARP head bolt kit had instructions with an Aug, 2017 Revision to them. Not sure if it's always been this way, but it's a 3 step torque sequence now. I thought it was 2 before. Also there is a new washer design to counter the problem mentioned in the article

Here is a picture of the new washers that the larger bolts now use.

With this new pattern, I elected to just leave them as is and torque per instructions. The 5 smaller washers are still just smooth, so I roughed them up with a bit of sandpaper

01-26-2018, 06:49 PM	#1
frankwjr Drives: 2010 SS 2SS M6 Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Smithsburg, Md. Posts: 2,445	Modder's Alert! Possible bolt TQ probs - see article Yo C-5 peeps...just ran across this article in Dragzine...http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories...ng-head-bolts/ with so many builds either in progress or getting ready to start I thought this would be a good read...Bo and I talk about the proper use of ARP lube and this article goes further...stating ARP recommends lightly SANDING the bottom of the washer to keep it from spinning... it's the little details that make the diff! peace out and have a safe weekend! __________________ 2010 SS 2SS M6 - Tune by RDP dynoSteve!(Woot) - Daily Driver - *150K!* - All work by me...

01-26-2018, 10:40 PM	#3
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,019	I wouldnt worry with it. Ive never had an issue and neither has hundreds of thousands of others. I lightly lube the threads and lube the washers top and bottom and go to assembling. __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

01-26-2018, 11:09 PM	#4
frankwjr Drives: 2010 SS 2SS M6 Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Smithsburg, Md. Posts: 2,445	...just hope yer not that 100,001 that "accidentally" pulls a bolt due to this...did ya even take the time to read the article my man? __________________ 2010 SS 2SS M6 - Tune by RDP dynoSteve!(Woot) - Daily Driver - *150K!* - All work by me...

01-26-2018, 11:23 PM	#5
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,019	Like I said earlier, these heads are solid. Torqued down like an iron head. __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

01-27-2018, 08:09 AM	#7
frankwjr Drives: 2010 SS 2SS M6 Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Smithsburg, Md. Posts: 2,445	again..did you even take the time to read the article? This is a NEW problem due specifically to the newer materials used being harder and the machining process leaving a much smoother surface..therefore the washer can POSSIBLY spin causing a over torque situation...even my title said POSSIBLE problems... why would a magazine take the time to write a article and SPECIFICALLY quote the manufacture recommendations!?!?!? Bo, you even mentioned that the new heads felt "harder" when you installed them..and the problem isn't then head but the over TQ pulling the F@%KING bolt/stud FROM THE BLOCK! Maybe some folks know better than Steve Brule at Westech and the ARP rep who said-- "That’s when I remembered a discussion I had recently had with ARP’s Chris Raschke in which he told me that ARP had recently received tech calls about pulling threads out of the block and even some head bolt failures that appeared to be from over-torquing. I guess in the future I should just keep it to myself and have a laugh if I ever run across a situation above...but I'm not a dick...peace out. BTW - just READ the article...tks. __________________ 2010 SS 2SS M6 - Tune by RDP dynoSteve!(Woot) - Daily Driver - *150K!* - All work by me...

01-26-2018, 06:54 PM	#2
hou30guy Drives: 2011 convertible 2ss/rs Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Houston Posts: 971	Well hell arp should had done that to the washers before they left the warehouse lmao Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

01-27-2018, 04:03 AM	#6
hou30guy Drives: 2011 convertible 2ss/rs Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Houston Posts: 971	Dont get soooo caught up in a article, puting heads on is only common sense to a gear head Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

01-27-2018, 08:11 AM	#8
hou30guy Drives: 2011 convertible 2ss/rs Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Houston Posts: 971	You big mad or lil mad lmao Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

01-27-2018, 08:22 AM	#9
go_go_gadget88 Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS ABM 6M Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Kansas Posts: 617	Interesting article, Frank. I have some sandpaper laying around. Looks like it wouldn't hurt to rough up the bottom side of washer a bit! Probably doesn't happen often..but with my luck, I'd be that one out of thousands that pulls the threads out of my block __________________ 2010 ABM 2SS/RS LS3 6 Speed -- Rotofab CAI \| Speed Engineering 1 7/8" Longtubes w/ cat Delete \| Magnaflow competition catback \| TSP 231/246 cam\| TSP/PAC .660" Spring Kit \| TSP CNC Ported Heads \| Bo White PTB \| GPI Ported/RM Intake \| 3.91's \| BC Catch Can \| MGW Shifter \| BMR 1" Drop Springs \| BMR Trailing arms/Toe Rods/Rear UCA Bushings \| Pegasus Subframe Mounts

01-27-2018, 09:25 AM	#11
Dylan1214 Drives: 2014 Camaro SS L99 Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: GrandRapids,Michigan Posts: 225 View My Garage	Hmm.. interesting __________________ MODS: GPI MAX Package ported and milled heads+(229/250,111 LSA),Johnson 2110 Lifters,BTR .660 Springs,CHE Trunnions,C5R chain,DSX Flex Fuel kit,LSA Injectors,ZL1 Fuel Pump,MAMO Ported MSD Intake manifold,BOWhite ported Throttle body,25% UDP,CAI Intake,Intake Scoop,Kooks 1 7/8 headers,Borla attak catback,Elite catch can,BMR Motor mounts,CircleD 5C 4000-4200 Torque converter,ADM trans cooler,Jannetty Trans dipstick,DSS Aluminum Driveshaft,3.91 Gears,Eaton TrueTrac,JRE Billet caps,BMR Trailing arms,BMR Toe rods,BMR rear sway bar,Pegasus Solid sub frame bushings,DSS 1,000HP Axles

01-28-2018, 09:59 AM	#12
frankwjr Drives: 2010 SS 2SS M6 Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Smithsburg, Md. Posts: 2,445	so I ran across another thread over on LS1TECH re: this same issue https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-solution.html...from a year ago! Seems it took ARP that long to confirm what the problem actually is and come up with a "fix"...I would not be at all surprised to actually see this become a "factory" spec...OEM torque to yield bolt washers already have little dimples on the bottom...hmmm...wonder what they are there for??? So hopefully this will save somebody grief/money/time in the future and if it happens to somebody...then you have something to go on...peace out! __________________ 2010 SS 2SS M6 - Tune by RDP dynoSteve!(Woot) - Daily Driver - *150K!* - All work by me...

01-28-2018, 10:25 AM	#13
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	I think it's good info, I've seen several people break ARP head bolts on install. Who knows if they didn't lube them right, or a bad bolt. I know the instructions that come with the LS bolt kit says to use their ultra lube on the threads and only under the bolt head. If you followed that, should be fine. But, now I'm definitely going to be scuffing the bottoms of washers. The GM head bolts are quite different. They are not black coated, and come with their own stuff already applied to the threads. And those you do a multi step angle tq process to get the tq to yield stretch correct. The ARPs are just 2 step Tq. I've never had a problem with either the OE or ARP, but will definitely follow this tip on the ARPs from now on. Will be interesting to see if they change their washers.

02-09-2018, 11:51 AM	#14
go_go_gadget88 Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS ABM 6M Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Kansas Posts: 617	Wanted to come back to this with an update. I started putting my heads on yesterday, and noticed that my ARP head bolt kit had instructions with an Aug, 2017 Revision to them. Not sure if it's always been this way, but it's a 3 step torque sequence now. I thought it was 2 before. Also there is a new washer design to counter the problem mentioned in the article Here is a picture of the new washers that the larger bolts now use. With this new pattern, I elected to just leave them as is and torque per instructions. The 5 smaller washers are still just smooth, so I roughed them up with a bit of sandpaper __________________ 2010 ABM 2SS/RS LS3 6 Speed -- Rotofab CAI \| Speed Engineering 1 7/8" Longtubes w/ cat Delete \| Magnaflow competition catback \| TSP 231/246 cam\| TSP/PAC .660" Spring Kit \| TSP CNC Ported Heads \| Bo White PTB \| GPI Ported/RM Intake \| 3.91's \| BC Catch Can \| MGW Shifter \| BMR 1" Drop Springs \| BMR Trailing arms/Toe Rods/Rear UCA Bushings \| Pegasus Subframe Mounts Last edited by go_go_gadget88; 02-09-2018 at 09:35 PM.