Z28 TESTING vs. BOSS 302

[htron50]

I got the following from ford press releases and was wondering if anyone from GM or associates can tell if GM is putting as much attention on the Z28. It appears Ford is really attempting to deliver a strong street/strip machine with plenty of margin left at top end. All feedback appreciated because I am hoping GM is going to lead in this dept, not be "me too"


"Once an adequate test stand was configured, the Boss engine was run at its full rated output for tens of millions of cycles, eventually outperforming its specifications at every stage of testing. Engineers calculated that the test regimen was equivalent to running the Daytona 250 race flat-out more than 175 times - in a row.

Team members also devised an additional durability test specific to the Boss 302 engine - one that reflects the unique demands of Boss drivers. The engine was subjected to a regimen simulating 1,500 quarter-mile races typical of events at drag strips across the country.

"Even though the production Boss engine is designed to be very close to a full race engine, it had to achieve the same vehicle durability signoff any other production engine requires," says Harrison. "Then it went on to get the track durability test signoff too. It's really an engineering accomplishment that a Boss owner can thrash his car on the track and still expect the same outstanding reliability that the owner of a regular Mustang GT will enjoy."

Heres the link: read all about testing etc.. http://www.muscularmustangs.com/2010...g_boss_302.php

[lil_red_v6]

send a link.

[DGthe3]

You mean stuff like this:

Regarding quality and durability. The 6.2L Supercharged LSA has been validated beyond 100,000 miles and accumulated more the 6,400 hours of dynamometer testing. It has run over 270 consecutive hours at wide-open throttle without a failure. It's been road tested in the world's extreme climates and track-tested under racing g loads on some the world's most demanding circuits. It has completed actual and simulated 24-hour track tests.

http://archives.media.gm.com/us/powe...r/10_LSA_n.doc

[SilverTurtle]

Originally Posted by htron50

I got the following from ford press releases and was wondering if anyone from GM or associates can tell if GM is putting as much attention on the Z28. It appears Ford is really attempting to deliver a strong street/strip machine with plenty of margin left at top end. All feedback appreciated because I am hoping GM is going to lead in this dept, not be "me too"


"Once an adequate test stand was configured, the Boss engine was run at its full rated output for tens of millions of cycles, eventually outperforming its specifications at every stage of testing. Engineers calculated that the test regimen was equivalent to running the Daytona 250 race flat-out more than 175 times - in a row.

Team members also devised an additional durability test specific to the Boss 302 engine - one that reflects the unique demands of Boss drivers. The engine was subjected to a regimen simulating 1,500 quarter-mile races typical of events at drag strips across the country.

"Even though the production Boss engine is designed to be very close to a full race engine, it had to achieve the same vehicle durability signoff any other production engine requires," says Harrison. "Then it went on to get the track durability test signoff too. It's really an engineering accomplishment that a Boss owner can thrash his car on the track and still expect the same outstanding reliability that the owner of a regular Mustang GT will enjoy."

Heres the link: read all about testing etc.. http://www.muscularmustangs.com/2010...g_boss_302.php

the short answer is "yes"

Originally Posted by DGthe3

You mean stuff like this:

http://archives.media.gm.com/us/powe...r/10_LSA_n.doc

and there is proof of it


GM, as well as most car companies, put their engines through all kinds of tests that simulate what their market audience will do with the engine... if it is going to break, they need to know why and when to anticipate it and fix it, if possible... you'd be foolish to do it any other way

I believe you'll discover, if you dig farther, that this really is just a case of Ford, or Ford fan pages, hyping up something they've done for years in an attempt to draw attention to the Mustang as GM introduces the new convertible and Z28 models... as it has been pointed out in other articles/threads, the coupe is selling almost unit for unit with all three versions (coupe, 'vert and GT500) of the Mustang... and they need to keep things as new and interesting as they can to draw attention away from that.

[htron50]

Thanks Turtle! I was hoping to see something like that... I presume the Z28 should have a new version of the engine and new testing to gloat about! I mean... a plain wrapper LSA doesn't really add to the Z/28 mystique.... we need something a pinch higher in output than 556 hp. A tweak or two to 638hp would be nice. And since the new vette is getting a DIv8... why not let us have the LS9? At least break the 600 crank hp. Wildly loping cam would be nice. Git R done!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by htron50

Thanks Turtle! I was hoping to see something like that... I presume the Z28 should have a new version of the engine and new testing to gloat about! I mean... a plain wrapper LSA doesn't really add to the Z/28 mystique.... we need something a pinch higher in output than 556 hp. A tweak or two to 638hp would be nice. And since the new vette is getting a DIv8... why not let us have the LS9? At least break the 600 crank hp. Wildly loping cam would be nice. Git R done!

There is no way the Z28 will get an up tuned LS9 or a crazy cam from the factory.

Not.
Gunna.
Happen.

Just getting the LS9 will be a stretch, and frankly I don't think its worth it for GM to go that route. The engine costs a lot more (~$5000, on the consumers end). And if the V6's are anything to go by, an LSA Z28 could easily have an extra 10-15 hp over the CTS-V (because the V6 goes up from 304 to 312 between the CTS and Camaro). Meanwhile, an LS9 could just as easily be down rated that 10-15 hp in the Camaro (much like the LS3 goes from 436 to 425). So it might become something like 625 hp vs 570 hp, compared to the 638 vs 556 we generally think of.

That said, there is one option I've thought about. Make a hybrid between the LSA and the LS9. Essentially take an LSA and add the LS9's 2.3L blower, perhaps running . Tuning it to make 600 hp (a near even split between the two engines) would be fairly easy. It would lose a bit of durability, but from anything I've heard, the LSA is pretty stout to begin with and should have no problem with the extra power.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by SilverTurtle

I believe you'll discover, if you dig farther, that this really is just a case of Ford, or Ford fan pages, hyping up something they've done for years in an attempt to draw attention to the Mustang as GM introduces the new convertible and Z28 models... as it has been pointed out in other articles/threads, the coupe is selling almost unit for unit with all three versions (coupe, 'vert and GT500) of the Mustang... and they need to keep things as new and interesting as they can to draw attention away from that.

Mustang had convertibles for all models since the start, as well as a high performance 50K car which you assume the Z28 will be a competitor with. GM is years late to the ball game across the board and has no direct competitor to the GT500 for atleast another year and will never have a competitor to the Boss 302.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by alrox

Mustang had convertibles for all models since the start, as well as a high performance 50K car which you assume the Z28 will be a competitor with. GM is years late to the ball game across the board and has no direct competitor to the GT500 for atleast another year and will never have a competitor to the Boss 302.

that last part is a huge assumption. we will see says the blind man.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

that last part is a huge assumption. we will see says the blind man.

Facts speak for themselves. GM is years late and the Boss 302 run will have ended before GM can put out a competitor.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by alrox

Facts speak for themselves. GM is years late and the Boss 302 run will have ended before GM can put out a competitor.

but you say they never will have a competitor.

you fail to realize that the mustang is old news period. people want the camaro due to the fact it's the "new" thing. granted you have your die hard guys holding out for their favorite car. but the reason for the camaro's success is the performance and looks. the mustang still looks relatively the same since 2003. minor refreshes but nothing major. the camaro is completely new. years late? maybe. but in the game? yes. is that what matters right now, yes.

disclaimer: in no way have I said the mustang is a bad car. just that the camaro is newer and has that new appeal compared to the stang. and that's what society wants. what's new and fresh.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

but you say they never will have a competitor.

you fail to realize that the mustang is old news period. people want the camaro due to the fact it's the "new" thing. granted you have your die hard guys holding out for their favorite car. but the reason for the camaro's success is the performance and looks. the mustang still looks relatively the same since 2003. minor refreshes but nothing major. the camaro is completely new. years late? maybe. but in the game? yes. is that what matters right now, yes.

disclaimer: in no way have I said the mustang is a bad car. just that the camaro is newer and has that new appeal compared to the stang. and that's what society wants. what's new and fresh.

The Camaro is a midlevel performer for its price. I would wager that the majority of people that bought a new Camaro bought it because it's the car from Transformers, not its performance.

The Mustang looks basically the same since 2005, not 2003. If GM releases a Boss 302 competitor, the Boss 302 run will be over by then and Ford will have moved on to a new speciality car in a slightly different segment.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

but you say they never will have a competitor.

you fail to realize that the mustang is old news period. people want the camaro due to the fact it's the "new" thing. granted you have your die hard guys holding out for their favorite car. but the reason for the camaro's success is the performance and looks. the mustang still looks relatively the same since 2003. minor refreshes but nothing major. the camaro is completely new. years late? maybe. but in the game? yes. is that what matters right now, yes.

disclaimer: in no way have I said the mustang is a bad car. just that the camaro is newer and has that new appeal compared to the stang. and that's what society wants. what's new and fresh.

I think October sales show that the pedal has potentially fallen off of that rose. Every popular new car has it's fifteen minutes (05 Mustang, Chrysler 300, MINI) but it does end. Camaro sale fell enough to place that car slightly behind total Mustang sales in October.

Is that a fluke? Maybe, but the Camaro has been out over a year now and this is about when I would expect reality to start kicking in given the trend with other niche-esque cars and the current state of the economy.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by syr74

I think October sales show that the pedal has potentially fallen off of that rose. Every popular new car has it's fifteen minutes (05 Mustang, Chrysler 300, MINI) but it does end. Camaro sale fell enough to place that car slightly behind total Mustang sales in October.

Is that a fluke? Maybe, but the Camaro has been out over a year now and this is about when I would expect reality to start kicking in given the trend with other niche-esque cars and the current state of the economy.

and then the convertible comes out. . .boost sales for a while. . .then another special version comes out. . .etc etc etc.

but 304 units more then the camaro is nothing too special. yea it out sold the camaro. but that's neck and neck rang. there are still more sold camaros this year then mustangs. nov dec will show the same. even if the mutang out sales it the next 2 months.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

and then the convertible comes out. . .boost sales for a while. . .then another special version comes out. . .etc etc etc.

The Camaro convertible will sell mildly at first, then poorly. It always has. Mustang on the other hand is #1 in convertible sales for many years.