ZL1-LSA-MR+LS7+Pedders Coilovers = Z28? - Page 67 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

OldScoolCamaro · 08-29-2011, 06:48 PM

Our Rebel Leader #2.99 has spoken,...so it has been written,..so it shall be done....

JusticePete · 08-29-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91Z28350

Step away from the keyboard, the nice men in white coats are going to come and bring you to the peaceful place where everyone is all smiles and talk in nice, soothing tones Pete, err 2.99. err, umm flounder? Just stay put and stay away from anything pointy or boomy.

2cnd chance · 08-30-2011, 10:02 AM

I'm with flounder. I vote flounder for CEO of GM.

2cnd chance · 08-30-2011, 10:08 AM

Ok all this cost talk... How can GM spend the money on a CTS sedan, coupe & wagon (really a wagon?) and then on a CTSV sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?) and not build a Z28?
The Z28 is just bolt-ons. Lots of tooling between a sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?).
Your thoughts are required.

Thanks!

LOWDOWN · 08-30-2011, 11:36 AM

My biggest surprize in the AutoWorld at the moment (considering escalating fuel prices but shrinking family sizes) is the relative lack of WAGONS! They were initially bludgeoned by the MiniVan rage of the mid/late-'80s, and finished off by CrossOvers. But tallroofed vehicles that weigh more than they need to/should in the real world get lousier gas mileage, and who moves around in a moving vehicle these days to look after Jr. and Missy's messes?! Bring back the WAGON! (I happen to be a LongRoof fan...)

Go to holden.com.au and have a look at the Commodore Wagon...sweet!

Rant over...where's my meds?!

CTS required gap-filling for Cadillac/GM. It had to compete with Volvo (wagons), MB (wagons), Audi (wagons), Lexus (well...), Beemer (um...) and everyone else in that vicinity. Including coupes. V6s and V8s were required. And, to counteract everyone else's (stretching a point, here, so don't flame) more efficient/purposeful OHC V8s, Caddy had to reach for the "blower-pill"..tada! CTS-V as we now know it. Smooth seamless power, docile enough for mom (and her wagon), hot enough for dear ol' dad to teach the youngin's some respect. Validate the Sedan, and the Coupe and Wagon follow...SAME basic structure/platform/chassis, call it what you may.

But the same amount of "engineering" and "validation" that went into creating the CTS-Vs on THEIR platform will need to be repeated for the ZL1 (different chassis) and, hopefully in parallel, the real-deal ZEE/28 (HD driveline/brakes/rolling stock/(hood?).

So, in some ways, the "verification" of the ZEE should be less onerou$ than the CTS-V program was, because some of the CTS-V componentry will carry over (almost intact) to the ZL1, which even more easily translates to "our" ZEE (same platform/chassis).

*DGthe3* · 08-30-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Ok all this cost talk... How can GM spend the money on a CTS sedan, coupe & wagon (really a wagon?) and then on a CTSV sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?) and not build a Z28?
The Z28 is just bolt-ons. Lots of tooling between a sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?).
Your thoughts are required.

Thanks!

I'd rather have a CTW than a CTC

Anyway, it wasn't any work at all to make a -V out of the coupe & wagon once they had the sedan. Mechanically, all 3 are identical.

2cnd chance · 08-30-2011, 02:42 PM

Gotcha, but why the comments on it takes a lot to get a Z28 done? Again its just bolt-ons "compared" to the caddies quite different body work.

What I'm saying is in "comparison" the Z28 is a simple project (for an engineer).

LOWDOWN · 08-30-2011, 03:21 PM

Wow (and that is NOT directed at you or anyone specifically).

Remember when the words "SOLID Business Case required" were expressed, some time back?

You would need to be privy to ALL aspects of what GM considers a "SOLID Business Case" to fully aswer this question. And, frankly, I'm not nearly qualified to be the spokesperson...

I can only surmise, based on certain "stuff" I HAVE been a part of in the distant (pre-BK) past...and that "data" may or may not be "inclusive" enough "today"...to approximate an answer. And those who could answer, can't/won't...publicly.

The clock ticks...daily...on the possibility of a Gen-5 Z/28. THAT much I DO know...

There's only so many production months of Gen-5 Camaros left in ANY iteration, so the quicker ALL the numbers get crunched and the data gets digested, the more possibility of such a welcomed version actually gracing a showroom floor in Anytown USA exists.

And, unfortunately, the reverse is true...

As I mentioned last week, let "the people" know...politely, with respect and humility...that YOU are ready to BUY this car at this (sorta) price...as soon as possible, and as soon as possible.

tick-tick-tick

*DGthe3* · 08-30-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Gotcha, but why the comments on it takes a lot to get a Z28 done? Again its just bolt-ons "compared" to the caddies quite different body work.

What I'm saying is in "comparison" the Z28 is a simple project (for an engineer).

Nobody (to my knowledge) said it would be hard to do, perhaps hard to justify sure, but not hard to do (especially one along the lines of whats discussed in this thread).

Now, you could argue that its hard to justify a CTW & CTC and you'd be right. I think their main reason for existence was to give Cadillac some fresh product.

JusticePete · 08-30-2011, 05:27 PM

The SS was the ultimate Camaro for two model years. Chevrolet is marketing the ZL1 as the ultimate Camaro and it is for the moment. The question is, how long is the moment?

BoostedX2 · 08-30-2011, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The SS was the ultimate Camaro for two model years. Chevrolet is marketing the ZL1 as the ultimate Camaro and it is for the moment. The question is, how long is the moment?

I have to respectfully disagree. The SS WAS the ultimate Camaro until the 5.0 came out. Now they are a dead heat. Come on Chevy, show us the fabled value!!

JusticePete · 08-30-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr T

I have to respectfully disagree. The SS WAS the ultimate Camaro until the 5.0 came out. Now they are a dead heat. Come on Chevy, show us the fabled value!!

I understand what you are saying. Let's take it a step further. When the ZL1 rolls out that 'other' company will step it up. Maybe that is when we see another ultimate Z?

wildpaws · 08-30-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr T

I have to respectfully disagree. The SS WAS the ultimate Camaro until the 5.0 came out. Now they are a dead heat. Come on Chevy, show us the fabled value!!

Now you've done it! I think the "ultimate Camaro" discussion has been hashed out, fought over, argued at least 302,000 times (there is significance in that number).
Clyde

2cnd chance · 08-30-2011, 06:44 PM

GM has obviously placed the ZL1 as he ultimate. A Z28 would be an alternative an AWESOME alternative!

08-29-2011, 06:48 PM	#925
OldScoolCamaro Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will. Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Home of the brave Posts: 4,851	Our Rebel Leader #2.99 has spoken,...so it has been written,..so it shall be done.... __________________ In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.

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08-30-2011, 10:02 AM	#927
2cnd chance Too Many Great Choices Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: A Mountain Road Posts: 7,454	I'm with flounder. I vote flounder for CEO of GM.

08-30-2011, 10:08 AM	#928
2cnd chance Too Many Great Choices Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: A Mountain Road Posts: 7,454	Ok all this cost talk... How can GM spend the money on a CTS sedan, coupe & wagon (really a wagon?) and then on a CTSV sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?) and not build a Z28? The Z28 is just bolt-ons. Lots of tooling between a sedan, coupe and wagon (really a wagon?). Your thoughts are required. Thanks!

08-30-2011, 11:36 AM	#929
LOWDOWN Downright Upright Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cruisin'... Posts: 4,145	My biggest surprize in the AutoWorld at the moment (considering escalating fuel prices but shrinking family sizes) is the relative lack of WAGONS! They were initially bludgeoned by the MiniVan rage of the mid/late-'80s, and finished off by CrossOvers. But tallroofed vehicles that weigh more than they need to/should in the real world get lousier gas mileage, and who moves around in a moving vehicle these days to look after Jr. and Missy's messes?! Bring back the WAGON! (I happen to be a LongRoof fan...) Go to holden.com.au and have a look at the Commodore Wagon...sweet! Rant over...where's my meds?! CTS required gap-filling for Cadillac/GM. It had to compete with Volvo (wagons), MB (wagons), Audi (wagons), Lexus (well...), Beemer (um...) and everyone else in that vicinity. Including coupes. V6s and V8s were required. And, to counteract everyone else's (stretching a point, here, so don't flame) more efficient/purposeful OHC V8s, Caddy had to reach for the "blower-pill"..tada! CTS-V as we now know it. Smooth seamless power, docile enough for mom (and her wagon), hot enough for dear ol' dad to teach the youngin's some respect. Validate the Sedan, and the Coupe and Wagon follow...SAME basic structure/platform/chassis, call it what you may. But the same amount of "engineering" and "validation" that went into creating the CTS-Vs on THEIR platform will need to be repeated for the ZL1 (different chassis) and, hopefully in parallel, the real-deal ZEE/28 (HD driveline/brakes/rolling stock/(hood?). So, in some ways, the "verification" of the ZEE should be less onerou$ than the CTS-V program was, because some of the CTS-V componentry will carry over (almost intact) to the ZL1, which even more easily translates to "our" ZEE (same platform/chassis).

08-30-2011, 02:42 PM	#931
2cnd chance Too Many Great Choices Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: A Mountain Road Posts: 7,454	Gotcha, but why the comments on it takes a lot to get a Z28 done? Again its just bolt-ons "compared" to the caddies quite different body work. What I'm saying is in "comparison" the Z28 is a simple project (for an engineer).

08-30-2011, 03:21 PM	#932
LOWDOWN Downright Upright Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cruisin'... Posts: 4,145	Wow (and that is NOT directed at you or anyone specifically). Remember when the words "*SOLID Business Case required" were expressed, some time back? You would need to be privy to ALL* aspects of what GM considers a "SOLID Business Case" to fully aswer this question. And, frankly, I'm not nearly qualified to be the spokesperson... I can only surmise, based on certain "stuff" I HAVE been a part of in the distant (pre-BK) past...and that "data" may or may not be "inclusive" enough "today"...to approximate an answer. And those who could answer, can't/won't...publicly. The clock ticks...daily...on the possibility of a Gen-5 Z/28. THAT much I DO know... There's only so many production months of Gen-5 Camaros left in ANY iteration, so the quicker ALL the numbers get crunched and the data gets digested, the more possibility of such a welcomed version actually gracing a showroom floor in Anytown USA exists. And, unfortunately, the reverse is true... As I mentioned last week, let "the people" know...politely, with respect and humility...that YOU are ready to BUY this car at this (sorta) price...as soon as possible, and as soon as possible. tick-tick-tick

08-30-2011, 05:27 PM	#934
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,174	The SS was the ultimate Camaro for two model years. Chevrolet is marketing the ZL1 as the ultimate Camaro and it is for the moment. The question is, how long is the moment?

08-30-2011, 06:44 PM	#938
2cnd chance Too Many Great Choices Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: A Mountain Road Posts: 7,454	GM has obviously placed the ZL1 as he ultimate. A Z28 would be an alternative an AWESOME alternative!