Let Us Argue Amongst Ourselves

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by Biergut

Agree 100%.
Production numbers and the way they sold (or lack thereof) somewhat bear that out.

You hit it on the head, they languished on lots for and eternity..and had 20% discount only months after they came out. That''s the biggest argument for them being an outright track car- the team had a clean sheet of paper to build "that" car, with zero compromise. Now if you look at the ZL1,for a scant few grand more, it got you the RPO 1LE. The Z/28 was twice the price of a normal SS. It was a parts bin car,the LS7 was the perfect fit as it was on the way out.

[j o n]

Originally Posted by LateBrakeU2

You hit it on the head, they languished on lots for and eternity..and had 20% discount only months after they came out. That''s the biggest argument for them being an outright track car- the team had a clean sheet of paper to build "that" car, with zero compromise. Now if you look at the ZL1,for a scant few grand more, it got you the RPO 1LE. The Z/28 was twice the price of a normal SS. It was a parts bin car,the LS7 was the perfect fit as it was on the way out.

I'd argue it sat on lots and had discounts because of the perceived value. Not many people want a $75k car without air or a $76k car without creature comforts and amenities the ZL1 1LE or ZR1 has.

Maybe 10 people on this forum I'd say bought the Z/28 as a true track only car. Trailered to/from track. No street use. People bought the car to enjoy and use with their everyday life too. At $75/76k not much value. True reliable track cars can be built for less than $20k and destroy the Z/28 (my friends own them). Even at the current $40k's the cars are at, some people so don't see the value in the livability aspect.

Maybe those who have both cars (or all 3 including the ZR1) or those made the switch can chime in and state their experiences.

[Biergut]

Originally Posted by j o n

Maybe 10 people on this forum I'd say bought the Z/28 as a true track only car. Trailered to/from track. No street use. People bought the car to enjoy and use with their everyday life too. At $75/76k not much value. True reliable track cars can be built for less than $20k and destroy the Z/28 (my friends own them). Even at the current $40k's the cars are at, some people so don't see the value in the livability aspect.

Sorry Jon, gotta call BS on this one... and I don't mean to pick a fight, but I've been racing, tracking and instructing for 30 years and you cannot build a "reliable" track car that will "destroy" the Z/28 for less than 20k. One of the reasons I moved to the Z/28 as my primary track car was there was nothing faster for the money - period. It runs with 2018 GT3s and would be just as fast for it not the 800/900 pounds it gives up on the straights with identical HP. There is nothing that goes by my 40k purchase that is less than 70k invested. If it's a race car, a "true" race car that is faster than the Z/28 - many, many thousands have been spent to make it go.

Perhaps you were speaking about some low beginner group, but in the experienced top groups it ain't happening for less than 20k. Hell, I had more than 15k invested "over" the purchase price of a Z51 optioned C6 Corvette in order to get close to my lap times in the Z/28.

"Destroy" the Z/28 for less than 20k... that's funny.

[j o n]

Originally Posted by Biergut

Sorry Jon, gotta call BS on this one... and I don't mean to pick a fight, but I've been racing, tracking and instructing for 30 years and you cannot build a "reliable" track car that will "destroy" the Z/28 for less than 20k. One of the reasons I moved to the Z/28 as my primary track car was there was nothing faster for the money - period. It runs with 2018 GT3s and would be just as fast for it not the 800/900 pounds it gives up on the straights with identical HP. There is nothing that goes by my 40k purchase that is less than 70k invested. If it's a race car, a "true" race car that is faster than the Z/28 - many, many thousands have been spent to make it go.

Perhaps you were speaking about some low beginner group, but in the experienced top groups it ain't happening for less than 20k. Hell, I had more than 15k invested "over" the purchase price of a Z51 optioned C6 Corvette in order to get close to my lap times in the Z/28.

"Destroy" the Z/28 for less than 20k... that's funny.

500 rwhp ls3/t56 swapped e36 m3. 315 square and 2550lbs... Yea. Destroyed cars way faster cars than 5th gen z/28s

Mainly used for hill climbs but does go to summit point and Pitt race

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz_6jApH...=1l2jlph268x70

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by j o n

I'd argue it sat on lots and had discounts because of the perceived value. Not many people want a $75k car without air or a $76k car without creature comforts and amenities the ZL1 1LE or ZR1 has.

I would contend they sat on lots because the word on the street was they rode like a dump truck( most race cars do),and in chevy's infinite timing wisdom they simultaneoulsly released the Z06. For 10K more, you got a vette with USB ports,back up cam, a cushier ride, and way more power. The question was what was a more dedicated track car, not what % of people bought one to track. If you recall, the non AC cars were like red headed step children, that to me speaks volumes. The ZLE's are most certainly a capable track car,but i don't see them winning any pro or amatuer road racing championships like the Z did. Same thing happened with the third gen 1LE's, dealers wouldn't order them for stock because they knew they would be stuck with them due to ride quality and lack of features.

[MX621]

Very interesting conversation. I’d say the z/28 priced itself out of most buyers when new and as said before the timing of the C7 platform didn’t help the matter. Had it been a 60k car when new it would have sold way better.

Far as the most focused track car that’s a tough one for me. The zle is extremely focused chassis wise, all the solid bushings, aero etc. the interior, they gave the customers what they wanted and I think it worked in their favor. Engine, I don’t think a FI engine is the best track option, but if you can control the heat what’s really the issue, besides the added weight. People want their cake and want to eat it too. That’s what gm did with the ZLE.

The z/28 is a tad less extreme chassis wise with the bushed subframe and everything else. But it is a compromise on the interior and I think it hurt the z/28 with the masses.

I’ll have to agree. For 20k u can have a C5zo6 with 315 square, sway bars, and seats, the z/28 will have its hands full.

[HoodCheck]

Originally Posted by LateBrakeU2

I would contend they sat on lots because the word on the street was they rode like a dump truck( most race cars do),and in chevy's infinite timing wisdom they simultaneoulsly released the Z06. For 10K more, you got a vette with USB ports,back up cam, a cushier ride, and way more power. The question was what was a more dedicated track car, not what % of people bought one to track. If you recall, the non AC cars were like red headed step children, that to me speaks volumes. The ZLE's are most certainly a capable track car,but i don't see them winning any pro or amatuer road racing championships like the Z did. Same thing happened with the third gen 1LE's, dealers wouldn't order them for stock because they knew they would be stuck with them due to ride quality and lack of features.

The marketing for them was a joke for sales. Pretty much everyone *still* thinks they have no a/c or stereo, because Chevy's own marketing material completely played it off as exactly that. I bet there were many many people that would've bought one had they known most have AC....even today, I bet they would sell more if that were more common knowledge. Unfortunately, for those who *do* know what the Z/28 is (as in rarity, etc), they still usually think there's not even AC (even within this thread that was brought up).

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by Biergut

Is the Gen5 Z/28 the most track focused production car GM has ever produced?

I'm not talking horsepower or even lowest lap times... I'm talking from the bits and bites, the bushings and bearings, the differentials and coolers... is it thee most focused car that GM has ever produced when having a "TRACK" dedicated automobile that takes the abuse with less maintenance and fewer headaches than all the others?

No, that would be the ZL1 or a Corvette with more carbon fiber body pieces for lighter weight and brake cooling. The ZL1 drivetrain is far stronger than the Z28. What was it 1000 dragstrip launches without failure?

Interesting reading up on the ZL1 and how the parts are different and the aero was changed for functional purposes not just a different nose to sell for more $. Could use a lower front splitter but as mentioned about AC cars popularity, most of us don't want a street car that rips itself apart on speed bumps and gutters and when my sorry driving overlaps curbs in the parking lots, the splitter has clearance.
People get mad when they say they are considering a 5th because "it is so fast" and I reply get a lighter car to start with if you want to be FAST.
The Z28 is a cool car but too heavy and expensive when new to be an ideal choice for most racing. Not enough hp for the weight either.
Tires, yeah track oriented I'll give you that point above other GM cars that come to mind.

[DRKS1D3]

I'll inject my $.02 here. Not just because I have one, but because the car has lauded many magazine editors and car reviewers around the globe. The C7 Grand Sport should be placed into this discussion as well. You can search the net and find dozens of articles of how this car has beaten or hung with cars costing double it's price tag. I've had the car for almost two years now and I can say without a doubt, it is a razor-sharp track weapon that is almost incapable of being upset when pushed hard. Many reviewers have even called it the perfect C7. It is most certainly subjective, but it is a very fair assessment.

[MX621]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

I'll inject my $.02 here. Not just because I have one, but because the car has lauded many magazine editors and car reviewers around the globe. The C7 Grand Sport should be placed into this discussion as well. You can search the net and find dozens of articles of how this car has beaten or hung with cars costing double it's price tag. I've had the car for almost two years now and I can say without a doubt, it is a razor-sharp track weapon that is almost incapable of being upset when pushed hard. Many reviewers have even called it the perfect C7. It is most certainly subjective, but it is a very fair assessment.

your not wrong, ill admit the only car I have had to point by so far on track was a c7 grand sport. was stock besides a DSC controller, which the owner said was a significant improvement on the suspension. we were both on 200TW tires

[HoodCheck]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

I'll inject my $.02 here. Not just because I have one, but because the car has lauded many magazine editors and car reviewers around the globe. The C7 Grand Sport should be placed into this discussion as well. You can search the net and find dozens of articles of how this car has beaten or hung with cars costing double it's price tag. I've had the car for almost two years now and I can say without a doubt, it is a razor-sharp track weapon that is almost incapable of being upset when pushed hard. Many reviewers have even called it the perfect C7. It is most certainly subjective, but it is a very fair assessment.

I was just reading about them a couple nights ago. I read it has shitty oversteer problems (the article I read was talking about how they fixed it in the C8 due to the mid-engine)....or maybe it was understeer; can't remember...just they basically said it wasn't very comfortable coming out of sharp turns in the track even with a professional driver. I haven't driven one, especially on a track, so I can't say whether thats accurate or not.

[j o n]

Originally Posted by HoodCheck

I was just reading about them a couple nights ago. I read it has shitty oversteer problems (the article I read was talking about how they fixed it in the C8 due to the mid-engine)....or maybe it was understeer; can't remember...just they basically said it wasn't very comfortable coming out of sharp turns in the track even with a professional driver. I haven't driven one, especially on a track, so I can't say whether thats accurate or not.

Probably snap-oversteer. Vettes typically suffered from that at 10/10ths driving. No warning, just like a light switch.

Lots of variables though... throttle inputs, brake input, alignment, tire specs, etc etc...

[Biergut]

Originally Posted by j o n

500 rwhp ls3/t56 swapped e36 m3. 315 square and 2550lbs... Yea. Destroyed cars way faster cars than 5th gen z/28s

Mainly used for hill climbs but does go to summit point and Pitt race

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz_6jApH...=1l2jlph268x70

Purchase price of the M3, the modified engine, all additional parts and LABOR -- that is no under 20k car, Jon.

[Biergut]

Originally Posted by MX621

I’ll have to agree. For 20k u can have a C5zo6 with 315 square, sway bars, and seats, the z/28 will have its hands full.

The C5 (and C6 for that matter) needs increased cooling for oil and diff, stiffer bushings and real brakes (like AP Racing) plus springs to come close to the Z/28. How do I know -- been there, done that. Couldn't keep the oil temps under 300 degrees or the differential fluid from boiling over without some serious cooling added. This adds quite a bit to the final cost for a reliable track machine capable of hours and hours of track duty.

Once all that stuff was done -- it was pretty damn fun. Didn't ever want to drive it on the public roads however.