Sea Foam

[ghosted]

Originally Posted by sherob

OK. I've never read or have heard that as being a requirement for joining a forum before... or even the *wink* *wink* unwritten

I am, and have been a member of many forums... as well as being a Moderator on a very large Sport Touring motorcycle forum for several years.

So thanks for enlightening me.

...what? Who said it was a requirement? If I'm going to do someone's legwork for them, I can drop whatever attitude I like.

And I've also been a member of other forums for many years now, and a moderator on a few of those, but I don't understand how that's relevant to this discussion?

[sherob]

Osmium.

[ghosted]

Originally Posted by sherob

Osmium.

What's density got to do with it? I provided the requested information. Move on.

[Mr. Stacy]

Seafoam is good.

So is honesty. Thanks ghosted.

[Dmpsix]

Originally Posted by ghosted

Instructions for Sea Foaming through the brake booster vacuum line are all over the internet. But since I don't feel like being a total asshole today, I've pressed the button and typed in "Sea Foam Camaro" for you.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286229

And yes, it's an LLT, but the same principles apply.

Well yeah we've all seen that one, I just wasn't sure if the same rules applied. It was weird being that there are a majority of SS owners here, but no write up.

But... if they are the same thing (which makes sense) then awesome, thanks for clearing that up.

[ghosted]

Originally Posted by Dmpsix

Well yeah we've all seen that one, I just wasn't sure if the same rules applied. It was weird being that there are a majority of SS owners here, but no write up.

But... if they are the same thing (which makes sense) then awesome, thanks for clearing that up.

Yeah it's the same principle. The brake booster vacuum line always runs into the intake, and will work the same on all but the strangest of cars. Sorry for being a dick.

[sherob]

Originally Posted by ghosted

Sorry for being a dick.

Myself as well.

[Banshee]

I have 2 gallons of it in garage...great s**t.

Is there a specific reason you are using it in your upper engine?

Unless you run junk fuel, do not change your fuel filter every 10-12k, do not change your oil/filter for 15k miles, use crappy oil...drive under 40 mph all day, don't change or clean your plugs, over oil your K&N air filter, dont change your air filter...there is no need to Seafoam your engine with less than 50-60k miles

Seriously...If you do NOT do any of the above...there is NO reason to Seafoam an engine.

As well, if you use Top Tier fuel in recommended octane, there is NO need to use Seafoam in the gas tank OR through the vacuum line...or in the oil.

If you use a premium filter (Mobil1/K&N/Puralator) and Mobil1, PP, RP, Redline....There is no need to add Seafoam to your oil....however, if you did add Seafoam, change your oil between 100-200 miles after adding at a rate of 2 oz/qt.

[ghosted]

Originally Posted by sherob

Myself as well.

Attitude or not, I have love for all of ya.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Banshee

I have 2 gallons of it in garage...great s**t.

Is there a specific reason you are using it in your upper engine?

Unless you run junk fuel, do not change your fuel filter every 10-12k, do not change your oil/filter for 15k miles, use crappy oil...drive under 40 mph all day, don't change or clean your plugs, over oil your K&N air filter, dont change your air filter...there is no need to Seafoam your engine with less than 50-60k miles

Seriously...If you do NOT do any of the above...there is NO reason to Seafoam an engine.

As well, if you use Top Tier fuel in recommended octane, there is NO need to use Seafoam in the gas tank OR through the vacuum line...or in the oil.

If you use a premium filter (Mobil1/K&N/Puralator) and Mobil1, PP, RP, Redline....There is no need to add Seafoam to your oil....however, if you did add Seafoam, change your oil between 100-200 miles after adding at a rate of 2 oz/qt.

I agree with the lack of need in these cars. Between the detergents in fuels, and synthetic oils, there really isn't a sludge, varnishing issue to be cured.

Now, for carbon build up. If the build up is so bad in the top end, that it is noticeably effecting performance, given what has been stated about modern gas and oil, I would feel a need to wonder if there isn't a bigger issue going on.

The other concern I would have, is what happens to that carbon as it is being cleaned? If it is hardened, and it probably is, it's not all going to melt into liquid, it's going break off...into the cylinder. There it is going to find it's way into the rings, it's going to scour the cylinder walls, It's going to marre the valve seats. Then, once it's had it's fun in the cylinder, it's going to proceed to lodge itself on in the catalytic converter, where it will remain.

Now, let's discuss this stuff as a "oil treatment". What does it do exactly? It breaks up and dissolves sludge. Now, lets think about that for a moment...how does it do that? Oh yeah, by breaking down the oil. Now back in the day, with the old 'dino' oil, sludging was a true concern. Especially in old flat tappet, work horse engines. Now I know they say that it's safe in oil, because it is, afterall, a petroleum based chemical. Well, so is gasoline, and we don't dump that into the crankcase...on purpose anyway. So, if it's breaking down 'sludge', what is it doing to the rest of the oil? The coating of oil on bearings, and cylinder walls that protects on cold starts, and high revving situations? Not to mention that little spring thingy in the oil pump that is already suspect on these engines.

I'm just not a big believer in mechanic in a can stuff. If carbon is that bad, it's time to pull the heads and clean them. If the fuel injectors are clogged, clean or replace. If the engine is full of sludge, take it apart.

But honestly, if you are changing your oil, not cheaping out on gas, and treating your car properly, there really is no real use for this kind of stuff, This is just my humble opinion based upon my somewhat limited knowledge of how these engines work, and fail.

[DonM]

Umm, isn't it kind of needed for the DI V6 engines with higher mileage and no catch can?

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by DonM

Umm, isn't it kind of needed for the DI V6 engines with higher mileage and no catch can?

Well, valve coking is an issue on DI engines. However, what I posted about carbon debris in the cylinders is even more prevalent here. In port injection you at least get some degree of a "soak and wash" from the gasoline, but not so in DI, so the build up on the valve stems and ports is quicker and heavier.

I would think that if you were going to use a top end cleaner, use it as a maintenance procedure like oil changes. You'd want to clean it before the carbon got built up and hardened, and would want to start this from new. If the car has miles on it already, then walnut blast the ports and valves first, and go from there. I would also think a catch can is an absolute must on a DI engine.

I'm just speaking from theory here, not experience. But it seems that the lengths we go to prevent the engine from ingesting debris, why would we want to create that situation internally?

[clarkkent]

Originally Posted by Banshee

I have 2 gallons of it in garage...great s**t.

Is there a specific reason you are using it in your upper engine?

Unless you run junk fuel, do not change your fuel filter every 10-12k, do not change your oil/filter for 15k miles, use crappy oil...drive under 40 mph all day, don't change or clean your plugs, over oil your K&N air filter, dont change your air filter...there is no need to Seafoam your engine with less than 50-60k miles

Seriously...If you do NOT do any of the above...there is NO reason to Seafoam an engine.

As well, if you use Top Tier fuel in recommended octane, there is NO need to use Seafoam in the gas tank OR through the vacuum line...or in the oil.

If you use a premium filter (Mobil1/K&N/Puralator) and Mobil1, PP, RP, Redline....There is no need to add Seafoam to your oil....however, if you did add Seafoam, change your oil between 100-200 miles after adding at a rate of 2 oz/qt.

Yes, this IS needed. The PCV valve vents excess pressure from the crank case into the intake tract. This air then goes through the intake manifold, through the intake runners, then into the cylinders. The fuel is added in the INTAKE RUNNERS. Past the intake manifold. No amount of fuel cleaner/fuel filters/whatever will help the intake manifold. All that gets in the intake manifold is air and excess crankcase pressure air. That is a fact.

When the PCV valve vents crankcase pressure into the intake, there is oil atomized in the air. That is why this can't be vented to the atmosphere, because that would be much easier. The EPA won't allow this. So, the theory is that the air with oil goes back into the cylinder to be combusted, cleaner than a straight vent. This happens, however parts of the atomized oil will liquify in the intake manifold. Also, the atomized oil air effectively lowers your octane, which can lead to pinging.

I challenge you to take off your throttle body and look inside the intake manifold, I guarantee there will be oil either pooled in there or the intake manifold walls will be covered in a layer of oil. This is what the seafoam is for, you get it into your intake manifold and let it dissolve the oil through the intake manifold and burn it.

What a catch can does (a good one) is use steel wool or the like to allow the atomized oil to collect in the catch can and let cleaner air into the intake manifold. No catch can is perfect, so some oil will still get through. The catch can will definitely help keep the intake manifold clean. If you install a catch can and check it periodically you will see how much oil is being caught.

Is this an absolute necessity? No. Do you HAVE to clean the intake manifold with seafoam all the time? No. But if you want your engine to be clean and run at peak performance, it's a good thing to do (with a catch can).

[Banshee]

Originally Posted by clarkkent

Yes, this IS needed. The PCV valve vents excess pressure from the crank case into the intake tract. This air then goes through the intake manifold, through the intake runners, then into the cylinders. The fuel is added in the INTAKE RUNNERS. Past the intake manifold. No amount of fuel cleaner/fuel filters/whatever will help the intake manifold. All that gets in the intake manifold is air and excess crankcase pressure air. That is a fact.

When the PCV valve vents crankcase pressure into the intake, there is oil atomized in the air. That is why this can't be vented to the atmosphere, because that would be much easier. The EPA won't allow this. So, the theory is that the air with oil goes back into the cylinder to be combusted, cleaner than a straight vent. This happens, however parts of the atomized oil will liquify in the intake manifold. Also, the atomized oil air effectively lowers your octane, which can lead to pinging.

I challenge you to take off your throttle body and look inside the intake manifold, I guarantee there will be oil either pooled in there or the intake manifold walls will be covered in a layer of oil. This is what the seafoam is for, you get it into your intake manifold and let it dissolve the oil through the intake manifold and burn it.

What a catch can does (a good one) is use steel wool or the like to allow the atomized oil to collect in the catch can and let cleaner air into the intake manifold. No catch can is perfect, so some oil will still get through. The catch can will definitely help keep the intake manifold clean. If you install a catch can and check it periodically you will see how much oil is being caught.

Is this an absolute necessity? No. Do you HAVE to clean the intake manifold with seafoam all the time? No. But if you want your engine to be clean and run at peak performance, it's a good thing to do (with a catch can).

If you PROPERLY MAINTAIN your car, YOU DO NOT NEED TO SEAFOAM YOUR ENGINE!

Use Top Tier Fuel, change your oil, as I said in my original post.

I'll tell you what...I will bet you big money...and yes, I am serious... if you can prove me wrong.

What color is that crap where you say it is? Black...oil? black...WHY?!?!?! You are not properly maintaining your car in the first place.

There will be No difference in fuel economy, dyno, drivability IF you use suggested fuels, oils, change intervals...and PROPERLY maintain your car in the first place!

Not my fault you "think" you read something somewhere or are bitten by "snake oil" when you put a 16 ounce can of "octane booster" in your tank and think you're running 101 octane...

I have a 1LE in the garage that has 10k on it and 3 oil changes...I will open it up...as you say...and I GUARANTEE you...The throttle body and intake look PRISTINE....Why?

I change my oil, filters, use top tier fuel..and don't drive it like a bitch.