1 Camaro, 75 Vipers

[MARKSTI]

Originally Posted by X25

Todd, my brother and I were thinking, it's just too big of a coincidence that both of us had the fade issue with the same XR1 pads. Perhaps it's just that these pads are not up to the task? If you haven't ordered bigger brakes already, it would be great to test the very same road course/config with ST43s!

Btw, the darkening is just the issue with clear coat, so it doesn't mean they are toast. Actually, when I sold my EvoX, which has almost the same brakes as Camaro SS, the caliper was black

1+
Maybe better pads..real race pads.

I've seen to many guys drop to much $$$ to upgrade brake systems just cause the pads they were running were junk.

[Q'smuscle]

Sweet ! Did you make some snake stew? I heard it's the best!Hahaha.... Nice pics!

[RJT2SSRS]

Great thread Orange Crush 1LE. When my wallet grows up I wanna be just like you:-)

[X25]

Originally Posted by RJT2SSRS

Great thread Orange Crush 1LE. When my wallet grows up I wanna be just like you:-)

Judging from your signature, I'd say your wallet is already grown up : )

[BaylorCamaro]

Awesome thread and good job representing TeamCamaro!

I know you're in an SS and a much better driver than myself. However I've tracked my ZL1 on a few different courses with different braking requirements and I've never had brake fade. I'm on the stock ZL1 brake set up, except with Motul 600 fluid and braided lines. I suspect all of my extra weight is testament to how well the set up works. I think you will be pleased.

[X25]

Originally Posted by Orange Crush 1LE

What is interesting is that if you look at the Viper TA, the front rotors are much heavier than the GTS's Stoptechs, by design. Both stop equally well for a few laps. But the TA's increased thermal mass allows for longer sessions. Both setups use the same Brembo 4-piston calipers.

So I've decided I'm ok with heavier fronts on the Camaro. I have Racing Brake rotors now, which are significantly lighter but they just can't take the heat of a long session and faded. The big CTS-V/ZL1 front set up should really help.

I reached out to StopTech on the subject of ZL1 brakes vs. StopTech 15" BBKs. Here is what he had to say:

The brakes used on the ZL1 are similar to what is used on the Nissan GTR and from our experience, they are overbuilt almost to a level of absurdity. While they would have more overall heat capacity than our big brake kit, they are also much heavier and have much higher service costs due to their non-standard replacement part options. We feel our kit offers a much better balance of performance, weight and service costs and would not be outperformed by the larger [ZL1] system except for extreme long distance races due to better wear rates of the larger parts.



If we were to compete in a more endurance type scenario, we would apply a wide annulus rotor and endurance caliper with 30mm pad thickness, much like what is used in our GrandAm/IMSA pro-level systems which would still have a weight and long-term cost advantage over the factory [ZL1] brakes.

By the way, here is the break-down (from my build thread):

FRONTS
I got StopTech weights directly from them:
ST-60 Caliper w/ Typical Bracket & Pads
Caliper: 34/36/38x32 8.786
Pads: 63-400-0060 (2 Pads) 2.884
Bracket: 36-330-8615 1.398
Total 13.068 lbs

380x32mm AeroRotor w/ Typical Hat & Hardware 17.450
Typical 380mm Hat & Hardware 3.750
Total 21.200
Grand total for this 15" system is 34.268 lbs.

In comparison, stock caliper is about 12 lbs with pads. However, stock rotor is 25.15 lbs. The total is about 37.15 lbs.

I do not know the weight of stock CTS-V caliper, but it's substantially bigger than the stock. My guess would be at least about 14 lbs. The two piece ZL1 rotors are about 27.5 lbs, bringing the r total to about 41.5 lbs.

So there you have it, the monster 15" StopTech system is only marginally lighter than the stock system, yet it's almost 7.5 lbs per wheel lighter than the comparable OEM (CTS-V) 15" system. CTS-V brakes cost so much less, though, so I might still pull the trigger one day Wilwoods weigh similar to StopTechs, but only with 14.25" diameter.

REARS

• Stock rears: ~32 lbs.
  • SS rear stock rotors: 24lbs each.
  • Calipers including pads: 8 lbs each.
• StopTech ST41 2-piece 355mm rotors and ST41 caliper: ~30.1 lbs.
  • 355x32mm AeroRotor w/ Typical RearHat & Hardware: 19.048 lbs.
    • AeroRotor 15.548 lbs
    • Typical 355mm Rear Hat & Hardware 3.5 lbs.
  • ST-41 Caliper (32mm Wide) w/ Typical Bracket & Pads: 11.044 lbs.
    • Caliper: 7.524
    • Bracket: (w/ Studs, Nuts , Washers) 1.302
    • Pads: 2.218

[trackwhore]

Looks like you had fun besides the brake problems. If you have not tried performance friction carbons. They are a great set of pads. squeak like hell till warm. But its a full race pad. They last me around 20 track days.

Almost no offs. That is a amazing feat to say the least. Last time I went out there I went off a few times. I really like config 13. But your config my buddy ran with SCCA. fast and crazy. Good luck with the brakes. I hope to see you out there sometime. I am glad I don't see your car over with Rick and Ryan at Synergy. My pile will be there tomorrow.

[RJT2SSRS]

Orange Crush 1LE judging a very deflated wallet doesn't count:-). I have put a little bit of work into the car but thats over a five year period. Thanks to Camaro5 the wallet never gets a chance to recover. My name is Dave and I am a addict:-)

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Originally Posted by cornerspeed92

Very nice Todd, you know those calipers are now a trophy

Haha, I'm going to learn from you and look on the bright side, and think less about the deep hole in my bank account from all of these upgrades

Originally Posted by Q'smuscle

Sweet ! Did you make some snake stew? I heard it's the best!Hahaha.... Nice pics!

I have to admit, it felt pretty good to run near the front of the pack with these cars. In NASA they would race one to two classes higher than my Camaro, so that was satisfying. I personally like to BBQ snake, haha

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Originally Posted by X25

Todd, my brother and I were thinking, it's just too big of a coincidence that both of us had the fade issue with the same XR1 pads. Perhaps it's just that these pads are not up to the task? If you haven't ordered bigger brakes already, it would be great to test the very same road course/config with ST43s!

Btw, the darkening is just the issue with clear coat, so it doesn't mean they are toast. Actually, when I sold my EvoX, which has almost the same brakes as Camaro SS, the caliper was black

Originally Posted by MARKSTI

1+
Maybe better pads..real race pads.

I've seen to many guys drop to much $$$ to upgrade brake systems just cause the pads they were running were junk.

Originally Posted by trackwhore

Looks like you had fun besides the brake problems. If you have not tried performance friction carbons. They are a great set of pads. squeak like hell till warm. But its a full race pad. They last me around 20 track days.

Almost no offs. That is a amazing feat to say the least. Last time I went out there I went off a few times. I really like config 13. But your config my buddy ran with SCCA. fast and crazy. Good luck with the brakes. I hope to see you out there sometime. I am glad I don't see your car over with Rick and Ryan at Synergy. My pile will be there tomorrow.

Well the Cobalt Friction pads were recommended by several of the more serious track rats on this site as well as Justice Pete, and I was running their top race pads (XR1s front, XR3s rear). So I thought I was running a real race pad.

I'm pretty confident that the primary culprit was the track configuration I was running. I doubt any pad would've held up, based on the rapid discoloration of the calipers and the brand new fluid that I boiled, bled with new, then boiled again. This is a track that I can push my car to the limit as I'm so familiar with it. I think it's fair to say that I've exceeded the capability of the stock 4-piston setup on a 3800 Lb car.

I tried to get PFC pads, but gave up because they don't yet make their newer pad compounds in SS sizing.

If you guys have recommendations on the best racing brake pads, I'm all ears. Perhaps the ST43s, as X25 recommends.

As far as the discoloration of the calipers, I know that the clear coat is known to discolor. What was a tell-tale sign of extreme overheating was that this happened in one day! I had many hard track days on these brakes and they had never discolored much. They were a slightly dark shade of red at the beginning of the day. They were almost black at the end.

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Originally Posted by X25

I reached out to StopTech on the subject of ZL1 brakes vs. StopTech 15" BBKs. Here is what he had to say:


By the way, here is the break-down (from my build thread):

Interesting, Matt "Dropspeed" said that the CTS-V / ZL1 brakes aren't much heavier than the stock SS brakes, so I didn't think there was a large weight penalty.

My decision to go with CTS-V brakes was based on price, I'm sure the Stoptechs or RB 6-pistons would also be good choices. The parts are on Amazon at fire-sale prices because GM was overstocked on silver and yellow calipers and priced them to move.

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

Awesome thread and good job representing TeamCamaro!

I know you're in an SS and a much better driver than myself. However I've tracked my ZL1 on a few different courses with different braking requirements and I've never had brake fade. I'm on the stock ZL1 brake set up, except with Motul 600 fluid and braided lines. I suspect all of my extra weight is testament to how well the set up works. I think you will be pleased.

I think I will too, I've heard nothing but good reviews with the ZL1 6-pistons

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Originally Posted by RJT2SSRS

Orange Crush 1LE judging a very deflated wallet doesn't count:-). I have put a little bit of work into the car but thats over a five year period. Thanks to Camaro5 the wallet never gets a chance to recover. My name is Dave and I am a addict:-)

Haha! My name is Todd and I am an addict too.

Good to have this support group, LOL

[EarlyApex]

Originally Posted by X25

I remember Dropspeed stating per his conversations with GM engineers, he was told that the fog lights are less optimal than the OEM locations for the brake ducting. I use the fog lights on my Miata, and it works just fine, so it's probably much better than nothing : )


I also do have the Improved Racing oil pan baffle, and I am yet to have any issues. The real test will be when I hit the local tracks with my brother next season; he does not have the baffling, but will use sticky NT01s. If we both never have issues, I suppose it will prove that I just didn't need it at my local tracks Nevertheless, it is very cheap insurance when put in perspective, and considering all the $$ we spend on other stuff.


It's interesting that you never had issues considering your other mods. I think it is quite dependent on the track layouts. The CTS-V brakes will add a bit of weight, but other than that, they seem to work great for everyone!

I checked out the improved racing oil pan baffle and the install guide mentioned referring to the factory shop manual for R&R. Do you have the referenced material you could share?