(Probably not a good fit for our cars) The new Amsoil 5W-50!

[X25]

I think this new oil could make a great track oil since it provides great protection when very hot. HTHS is 4.7!

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...?code=AMRQT-EA

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D445)
20.3
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D445)
127
Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270)
184
CCS Viscosity, cP @ (°C) (ASTM D5293
5052 (-30)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D92)
230 (446)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D92)
252 (486)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D97)
-47 (-53)
NOACK Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D5800)
7.4
High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
@ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP (ASTM D5481)
4.7
Four-Ball Wear Test @ 40 kgf, 75ºC,
1200 rpm, 1 hr, scar diameter, mm (ASTM D4172)
0.35
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896)
12.6

EDIT: I think this oil is too thick, and in turn will jack up oil temps in track use : (

[jksynergy]

Hmm, interesting. I'm running the signature series now, but the red top bottles. Have enough for one more change, then time to reorder. Might make sure I get this one next. Wonder the difference between the two?

[jksynergy]

Never mind, just noticed the HTHS is lower, like 3.1 vs the 4.7

[X25]

Originally Posted by jksynergy

Never mind, just noticed the HTHS is lower, like 3.1 vs the 4.7

Exactly. Heavier weight oil will provide significantly more protection at high temps. Some argue heavier weight oil also increases friction and adds to the oil temps, but I always think adequate oil weight is crucial.

Keep in mind, GM recommends 5W-30 Z/28 as far as I know, but for track duty, it recommends 15W-50 Mobil1, so chooses to go with the heavier weight.

[Destructo09]

Everything i've read says for track use and higher oil temps you need heavier weight oil.

The problem is that the viscosity goes down the hotter the oil gets, so if you run a 30 weight it might not have enough viscosity at 250 degrees to properly protect everything.

[White_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by X25

Exactly. Heavier weight oil will provide significantly more protection at high temps. Some argue heavier weight oil also increases friction and adds to the oil temps, but I always think adequate oil weight is crucial.

Keep in mind, GM recommends 5W-30 Z/28 as far as I know, but for track duty, it recommends 15W-50 Mobil1, so chooses to go with the heavier weight.

What do you suppose the adequate oil weight is? Personally I think 15/50 weight is too heavy, not sure why GM chose it, possibly because it offers the best additive package from Mobil1 without going to their race oil. Interesting to see how the 5/50 would do, however I'm a fan of running the lowest weight possible that maintains a reliable level of protection. I'm very happy with the 0/40.

[X25]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

What do you suppose the adequate oil weight is? Personally I think 15/50 weight is too heavy, not sure why GM chose it, possibly because it offers the best additive package from Mobil1 without going to their race oil. Interesting to see how the 5/50 would do, however I'm a fan of running the lowest weight possible that maintains a reliable level of protection. I'm very happy with the 0/40.

I'm also running 0W-40 at the moment. 5W-50 is lighter than the 15W-50, especially at lower temps, so it might be a good compromise, and hit GM's goal of running 50 weight oil at the track. I think GM picked 15W-50 only since it was the only available 50 weight oil available from Mobil1 with dexos1 approval. I think the reason why they want you to change it back is since it's too heavy for regular use. I'm not really sure, but wanted to bring this up regardless since before this oil, there was not any oil available at this spec, except perhaps Schaeffer 9000 oils (but I think they are race oil series anyway).

[wakespeak]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

What do you suppose the adequate oil weight is? Personally I think 15/50 weight is too heavy, not sure why GM chose it, possibly because it offers the best additive package from Mobil1 without going to their race oil. Interesting to see how the 5/50 would do, however I'm a fan of running the lowest weight possible that maintains a reliable level of protection. I'm very happy with the 0/40.

HTHS min of 3.5 for me. This equals the European cutoff for their A3 rating.

Not sure what the max "weight" for this engine is, but it has to be balanced vs having the oil pump go to bypass until the engine is hot. With bypass the engine get's less oil flowing. The 5w- of the Amsoil oil might prevent the bypass during the warm up period. I think that a 40 weight is sufficient in high temps, but oil analysis is the only way to know. The LS3 goes to bypass at a pretty low 50psi. So if this 5w-50 oil generates more than 50psi at track temps and rpms, then I would say it is too heavy.

[White_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by wakespeak

HTHS min of 3.5 for me. This equals the European cutoff for their A3 rating.

Not sure what the max "weight" for this engine is, but it has to be balanced vs having the oil pump go to bypass until the engine is hot. With bypass the engine get's less oil flowing. The 5w- of the Amsoil oil might prevent the bypass during the warm up period. I think that a 40 weight is sufficient in high temps, but oil analysis is the only way to know. The LS3 goes to bypass at a pretty low 50psi. So if this 5w-50 oil generates more than 50psi at track temps and rpms, then I would say it is too heavy.

I have an oil analysis where I was using Mobil1 5/30 with about 4 track days on it and it came back with great results. The thing that I didn't like about the 5/30 was it would have pretty low pressures at race temp. I switched to Mobil 1 0/40 to bump pressure on track and am happy with the results.

[brt3]

I have a friend who races a Miata in SCCA; he switched over to a synthetic called Maxima -- supposedly used by Dinan and Team Sahlen (Daytona 24) -- and swears by it. I know nothing about this and have had good results with Mobil 1 15w-50, but the spiel goes like this:

Please see the “Buyer Beware” attachment in reference to the differing basestocks that are in the lubricants marketplace. Also, please note that all of our Performance Auto oils are API SG / SJ rated which means that they contain the highest levels of ZDDP and Phosphorus in the industry (2,000+ PPM) which happen to be the backbone for extreme pressure & anti-wear performance.

We have supplied oil to the Dinan teams for several years now. We have also been working with Team Sahlen http://www.teamsahlen.com/index.cfm?...s&news_id=5919 so our oils have been used in the 24-hours of Daytona as well.

Let me know if you have any more questions and thank you for considering Maxima!

Best regards,

Tim Schaeffer
Maxima Racing Oils

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by X25

I think this new oil could make a great track oil since it provides great protection even when very hot. HTHS is 4.7!

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...?code=AMRQT-EA

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D445)
20.3
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D445)
127
Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270)
184
CCS Viscosity, cP @ (°C) (ASTM D5293
5052 (-30)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D92)
230 (446)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D92)
252 (486)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D97)
-47 (-53)
NOACK Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D5800)
7.4
High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
@ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP (ASTM D5481)
4.7
Four-Ball Wear Test @ 40 kgf, 75ºC,
1200 rpm, 1 hr, scar diameter, mm (ASTM D4172)
0.35
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896)
12.6

I am using their 0w-40 now recommended by my cam installer. Be careful though heavier oils are more likely to cause leaks.

[X25]

Originally Posted by wakespeak

HTHS min of 3.5 for me. This equals the European cutoff for their A3 rating.

Not sure what the max "weight" for this engine is, but it has to be balanced vs having the oil pump go to bypass until the engine is hot. With bypass the engine get's less oil flowing. The 5w- of the Amsoil oil might prevent the bypass during the warm up period. I think that a 40 weight is sufficient in high temps, but oil analysis is the only way to know. The LS3 goes to bypass at a pretty low 50psi. So if this 5w-50 oil generates more than 50psi at track temps and rpms, then I would say it is too heavy.

Great, I didn't know the bypass limit - thanks for the info!

I don't think we hit the high pressure limits at all at the track due to thinning that happens as the oil gets hot (which is why we're trying to find a good -50 oil anyway), but it might be an issue at cold start. Considering the fact that we rarely see any freezing temps, and never see frigid temps, I think 5W-50 might work great here in Pacific Northwest. Now that I know the bypass threshold, I'll also check on the pressures at cold start. I'll check it out once I replace my 0W-40 to give this a shot.

Regardless, it's much better fit than a 15W-50, with possibly no need to drain it after the track day.

15W-50 is what GM recommends for Z/28, but I forgot the fact that the dry sump version of LS engines run at much higher oil pressure and they must also have a higher threshold for bypass, too. As such, its minimum viscousity requirements might be different (might be lower or higher). In other words, the fact that it's OK to use it on an LS7 for short term does not necessarily mean we can use it on an LS3, too.

[X25]

Originally Posted by brt3

I have a friend who races a Miata in SCCA; he switched over to a synthetic called Maxima -- supposedly used by Dinan and Team Sahlen (Daytona 24) -- and swears by it. I know nothing about this and have had good results with Mobil 1 15w-50, but the spiel goes like this:

Please see the “Buyer Beware” attachment in reference to the differing basestocks that are in the lubricants marketplace. Also, please note that all of our Performance Auto oils are API SG / SJ rated which means that they contain the highest levels of ZDDP and Phosphorus in the industry (2,000+ PPM) which happen to be the backbone for extreme pressure & anti-wear performance.

We have supplied oil to the Dinan teams for several years now. We have also been working with Team Sahlen http://www.teamsahlen.com/index.cfm?...s&news_id=5919 so our oils have been used in the 24-hours of Daytona as well.

Let me know if you have any more questions and thank you for considering Maxima!

Best regards,

Tim Schaeffer
Maxima Racing Oils

I heard great things about Schaeffer oils in Miata racing forums. They also have a product (9000 series) with 5W-50 designation and similar specs. The main reason I didn't try them is since they are titled racing oil, and as such, might not have the detergents and other additives necessary for the longer term or daily use. If they actually do, you should let us know

[Russell James]

Originally Posted by wakespeak

HTHS min of 3.5 for me. This equals the European cutoff for their A3 rating.

Not sure what the max "weight" for this engine is, but it has to be balanced vs having the oil pump go to bypass until the engine is hot. With bypass the engine get's less oil flowing. The 5w- of the Amsoil oil might prevent the bypass during the warm up period. I think that a 40 weight is sufficient in high temps, but oil analysis is the only way to know. The LS3 goes to bypass at a pretty low 50psi. So if this 5w-50 oil generates more than 50psi at track temps and rpms, then I would say it is too heavy.

I think your confusing bypass with pressure relief.

Bypass is based on pressure differential pre and post filter.

You can run 80 psi and have no bypass if the differential is below the valve spec. Which is why racing filters have larger flow/micron ratings.

Track days, I run 15w50 high zinc/phos oil and a Wix racing filter.

Won't filter down to the nano micron... but that is not important at the track. Film strength and no bypass much more important.

Thin oil in a tiny micron filter can go into bypass at high RPM.