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Old 12-13-2017, 07:07 AM   #1
Matt8892
 
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Mileage at which lifters should be replaced with new cam?

I had a 2010 that I cammed at 15k miles and didn’t have lifted replaced. The new car (2012 ls3) has 55k on it and will have closer to 70k by the time a cam gets put in. I’ll obviously be going with all the other supporting mods, a lot of which some may already consider unnecessary.

Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on what I consider a slightly higher mileage car to be cammed. My engine builder/tuner said they won’t do a cam without doing lifters if the car has 100k plus on it. They also said new cam springs and all that will obviously show any weaknesses in the old lifters.

It’s an extra 1200 to have lifers replaces at the time of the cam. They’re also suggesting porting heads which is another 1200. So looking at 2300 for cam. Plus 1200 for lifters. Not gunna bother with porting heads for an additional 1200. Can’t justify that cost for maybe 20 more rwhp.

So just looking for opinions on replaying lifters or not on a car with 70k before cam.
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Old 12-13-2017, 07:12 AM   #2
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Im old school, but I would be doing lifters at that mileage. Hell, I would most likely freshen up the entire motor at the mileage if I was wanting to make more reliable power than I had before.
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Old 12-13-2017, 07:24 AM   #3
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I'm with Motorhead, I would change lifters out at that mileage. Last thing you want is causing unnecessary wear on a new cam. You could always make the call once you are in and inspect each one with a flat edge but then you run into potential delays waiting for the lifters if you decide you need them. You could order and inspect and possibly return them if they are not opened. Personally, I have never seen lifters with any significant miles that did not show some signs of wear unless it was a roller. Not sure I would go further in the engine unless I was looking to build serious power. Otherwise, I would not crack open the rest of the engine.
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Old 12-13-2017, 07:46 AM   #4
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I know a GM Mechanic. Those DoD/AFM lifter fail when they get high miles.

What also fails is the needle bearings in the rocker arms.

Some folks are going with bronze bushings in the rockers. Long read: https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...nion-kits.html

http://www.straubtechnologies.com/ls...ts-with-bolts/

I'm trying a set of these with TSP VVT 3.2 cam and DOD delete kit on a set of Trick Flow GenX 255's: https://www.texas-speed.com/p-6147-t...oller-tip.aspx
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Old 12-13-2017, 07:53 AM   #5
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No brainer, Matt. He doesn't have to deal with the AFM/DOD stuff with the LS3, but changing the lifters is worth it, and IMO, shouldn't run you anywhere close to $1200. I would upgrade the springs and swap out the rocker arm bushings as well.
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Old 12-13-2017, 08:50 AM   #6
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I asked my builder/tuner about rocker arm upgrades or bushing upgrades. His words were “stock is where it’s at. We don’t touch rocker arms on any of the vehicles we do”. So I’m under the impression to not touch rocker arms.

Also the 1200 for the lifters is as follows: “Cadillac racing lifters. Gm head gaskets. Gm head bolts. Professional installation”.
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Old 12-13-2017, 08:56 AM   #7
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Breakdown of parts and cost

1
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Old 12-13-2017, 09:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt8892 View Post
I asked my builder/tuner about rocker arm upgrades or bushing upgrades. His words were ďstock is where itís at. We donít touch rocker arms on any of the vehicles we doĒ. So Iím under the impression to not touch rocker arms.

Also the 1200 for the lifters is as follows: ďCadillac racing lifters. Gm head gaskets. Gm head bolts. Professional installationĒ.
I don't know what the percentage of failures are, but if I'm going with a cam and rev'ing higher, I'm not taking any chances.

http://www.gm-efi.com/tech/why-upgra...s-rocker-arms/

But do what you think is right for you and your budget.

I'm not willing to roll the dice, however, because a trunion upgrade is cheap insurance against an oil pan full of needle bearings casing possible engine damage.
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Old 12-13-2017, 09:33 AM   #9
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to answer your original Q op, IMHO anything over 20k or if cam being pulled shows signs of excessive wear on the lobes...

CTSV lifters...you plannin on runnin it over 8k? Or road course at high rpm's for extended periods? If not waste of $$$ IMHO...stock lifters are awesome, after market more $$ personal preference and intended use...

more important is replacement of the lifter BASKETS! cheap and brain less..

replace head bolts with ARP..

replace rocker bushing with brass...cheap insurance..

replace stock P/R's with STRONG ones, don't want any flexin. measure after heads are back on!

if possible stick with beehive springs, again personal pref.

Most important is who is doin the tuning? If you don't already have this covered give dynoSteve at RDP a shout, easy to talk to and I personally attest to his skillzzz!

good luck op, keep us updated..peace out!
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:02 AM   #10
Matt8892
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_C View Post
I don't know what the percentage of failures are, but if I'm going with a cam and rev'ing higher, I'm not taking any chances.

http://www.gm-efi.com/tech/why-upgra...s-rocker-arms/

But do what you think is right for you and your budget.

I'm not willing to roll the dice, however, because a trunion upgrade is cheap insurance against an oil pan full of needle bearings casing possible engine damage.
Exactly why Iím asking. If lifters should getvreplaed, which is what Iím leaning toward anyways, and finances didnít work out right now I would save longer. Itís that simple. Not trying to cut corners and ruin an engine. Thatíll cost more in the long run anyways. Iím all about over building and ensuring reliability with anything I do.
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:04 AM   #11
Matt8892
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankwjr View Post
to answer your original Q op, IMHO anything over 20k or if cam being pulled shows signs of excessive wear on the lobes...

CTSV lifters...you plannin on runnin it over 8k? Or road course at high rpm's for extended periods? If not waste of $$$ IMHO...stock lifters are awesome, after market more $$ personal preference and intended use...

more important is replacement of the lifter BASKETS! cheap and brain less..

replace head bolts with ARP..

replace rocker bushing with brass...cheap insurance..

replace stock P/R's with STRONG ones, don't want any flexin. measure after heads are back on!

if possible stick with beehive springs, again personal pref.

Most important is who is doin the tuning? If you don't already have this covered give dynoSteve at RDP a shout, easy to talk to and I personally attest to his skillzzz!

good luck op, keep us updated..peace out!
Complete street performance. The same shop that did my last camaro and just tuned this one. Canít say Iíll road course the car. Would love to some day. But at the same time, if Iím replacing them, why not go with something substantially better than what was in there? Love building things better than what was already in there and something thatís more capable than what was already in there withbthe capability and ease of mind that I can track it
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:06 AM   #12
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Like others said about 25k....and if unusual wear pattern on cam.....
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:19 PM   #13
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I did lifters on my second cam swap at 95k miles. First cam was at 65k miles and reused the stock ones.
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Old 12-14-2017, 03:24 PM   #14
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I was 120k on stock lifters when i pulled them to go solid roller. The lifters i pulled were still good. These are roller lifters guys not flat tappet.
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