Auto trans and N20........
 

Ok it seems to me that juicing off the line with a 100 or 150 dry shot might be too much, even in stabilitrak mode, (please jump in if I am wrong here). I am thinking/wanting to juice in third gear to finish out the 1320. My system came with a "full throttle" switch to mount underneath the pedal so it activates at WOT only. Can I simply just trade out the WOT switch on the floor to a button I can activate on my own? This will eliminate the need to let off the throttle because of the auto trans to activate the N20 when I want to in third gear. Thoughts? Or who in here juices off the line with a 100 or 150 shot with good results....and in what mode? I have 295 40's in the back.

Always have traction control off when using nitrous.

Id buy a window switch and spray above 3000 rpm if you aren't comfortable with leaving off the line on the n20. If you are on street tire, chances are you wont hook. I wouldnt worry too much about the trans and nitrous use, its all in the tune. Ive seen 650hp cars on 6l80e's hold up. Don't over think it lol.

With nitrous you benefit more by activating it sooner rather than later. If you spray in the first 8th then shut off the nitrous the rest of the 1/4 you will gain more than if you start off the spray then activate after the 8th. You want to lower your 60ft times and that is what nitrous does since it gives so much tq.

This is all traction permitting though but spraying once in 3rd seems like such a waste. If you can, try spraying in first preferably at 3K or after but don't wait too long.

If you don't want to buy a window switch then don't just unhook the WOT switch and make it a push button instead keep the WOT and get a simple button and wire it into the same WOT wire so that you have to be WOT and pushing the button for the nitrous to activate. It would keep you from accidentally activating it when not WOT. Alot of people lift for a second if they lose traction or at the end and forget they are holding the button with their finger and boom.

Anyways, I used to have it come on at 3000 rpm with 555R DR's on the street or track with 200 and it would hook.

ok guys thanks. I needed to hear if it was good to juice early or late. Now how about the 150 shot dry? Too much for stock pump? I am going to try the 75 jet first, then the 100. The shop I filled my bottle at is an import shop and they raised an eyebrow at my 100 and 150 dry. Then I told them it was on an SS V8 and they were like OH, CAN WE TUNE IT ON OUR DYNO WHEN YOU GET IT HOOKED UP? So I dont know, Im gonna need someone's help before I even attempt the 150. They alreadyt want me to go wet.

Here is how I understand it and if I am wrong someone can correct me.

The stock fuel pump will get taxed regardless if it is wet or dry. If dry, the fuel pump has to supply the rails and the injectors supply more fuel to the cylinders. So you are working the pump and injectors more. If wet, you are still working the pump harder because you are getting fuel from the rail to feed the plate or nozzle but you don't have to work the injectors any harder.

Now, if you go dedicated then you will not need the pump or injectors as the fuel supply is independent.

Having said that and depending on other mods you should be ok with a 150 shot fuel wise as the stock pump should be good to about 500rwhp.

What tuning have you done to prepare for the nitrous? What fuel are you going to use?

What is your system that you bought? Sounds like the basics. I'd get a window switch that ties into the tps as well so you only spray at wot and above a certain rpm (3000). You could then have your push button for activating your nitrous after the output from the window switch, if that is what you want. You need to pull timing as well, could do it in the tune or with a timing retarder and add fuel. Might be a good idea to read up alittle on what's out there. You want to be as safe as possible. 100 shot jets in a wet plate, you should be fine if eveything is setup correctly.

Ok, first of all thanks for the replies. Helps alot. I been gone a few days, fiancee in surgery. I have a dynotune nitrous system 75-150 dry system. Plunger, solenoid, dry nozzle. Activation is a WOT switch under the pedal, with an arming toggle switch you must actvate before the pedal WOT switch will work. I plan to run 110 mixed with good old California 91 maybe 50/50. No cats, full exhaust, Big K&N intake, hypertech hand tuner. (I know its a "canned" tune nobody likes but the car runs pretty damn good with it.) So I have been told I am ok to run like I am set up with the 100 jet in and the mixed fuel. 150 I will need custom tune. Thoughts?

Your canned tune will not know to add additional fuel when spraying with your dry system or pull timing. If you had a wet system, your fuel jet would add the additional fuel. Nitrous accelerates the combustion process, you do not want any detonation. Approx 2 degrees per 50 shot needs pulled. I would not spray 100 shot on a canned tune or even a 50 shot. But you might be able to get away with a 50 shot. The higher octane gas will help, but I wouldn't risk it with out pulling timing. You can run your canned tune when not spraying, then take the time to load your nitrous tune when you want to spray. Or go with a wet system and a timing retarder and maybe your canned tune. Or the tuner can do the resistor trick in a custom tune when you want to spray. But a 100 or 150 non progressive shot on a street tire is probably going to be a handful. If you do a 150 shot, make sure your not starving for fuel. Need to play it as safe as possible, even if you do, sh!t still happens. Hope the fiancee has a fast recovery.

Agreed. I would not spray on the Hyper canned tune. Normally, it ads timing and pulls fuel.

How are you going to add fuel if on a dry shot and you are not commanding the pcm to add fuel.:iono:

Well, I am counting on the MAF to add fuel as well as 02 sensors. That is the way system is designed. I understand what you guys are saying though, thats why I am asking before spraying. Kit instructions say as long as adequate octane booster or race fuel is used, (not necesarily 100 percent), that it would be safe to spray up to 100 with no timing retard. 150 shot would require at least 2 degrees of pull. I dont think I am going to even try the small jet, (75), without first getting a A/F guage. they say the placement of the dry nozzle is key as the sustem works by the MAF picking up the shot, so I am going to position it to spray all aver it. Thing is I will have to mount the jet at the end of the air filter so the MAF will see it. K&N intake has the MAF mounted all the way to the filter end so no room to mount it for the MAF to see it. Will post a pic in a few.

Thanks for that, I wasnt worried about the trans holding up. I know im not in that power range yet.

This is the setup I have and with a good tune is perfectly safe. All things being relative.

Well we will see how it rolls out. I am starting to install shit tomorrow.

OP talked about using a canned tune, not a custom tune till the bigger shot. I'll agree that with a good tune, it should be fine. But I like having some safe guards to help as much as possible.

Here is the bottle in the trunk, Just put it in. Thanks for the replies. I know and feel your concern for safety. And its not that I want to take stupid chances, I have talked around with people and shops. Like I stated earlier, it wasnt my intention to have an import guy advise me on my NOS setup. But I have went to him before when I had my turbo 4 banger and he never steered me wrong. and if you really think about it....LOL.....this guy has seen alot of "chances" taken with nitrous dry systems, AKA the stock civic guy coming in with self installed 200 dry shot wanting to beat a camaro, mustang, challenger like in the movies. So we are working towards safety in this. Keep you posted feel free to chime in with more good advice. Thanks.

Yes, get a wide band. Your O2 sensors will do nothing for you at wot. Wot is open loop.
If your canned tune is adding timing and now your spraying in your intake tube, your iat sensor is going to read a colder temp and will most likely want to add more timing. But if they designed the kit to work by spraying across the maf, then I can't argue that point.

Yes, the instructions said spraying cold nitrous across the MAF would drive the MAF nuts and add lots of fuel, thus creating the horsepower increase according to how much nitrous the MAF saw. So I mounted some of the kit today, now Im gonna have beers and tacos and get back to it tomorrow. Thanks for the input.

How about this? If I was to transform this to a wet kit right away, all I would have to do is run the fuel line off the stock pump to the plate behind the throttle body right? (Assuming of course I had one to put there). After that if I am correct in my thinking its just run the nitrous line and the fuel line to the plate and Im good? I could probably at that that point change the tune or retard the timing myself 2 degrees and run the 150 shot. Just thinking out loud. Anyone got pics of how they ran the fuel line off the stock pump?

I'm looking to do a nos kit as far as wet or dry I don't know I a aem air intake and a diablo tune on 91 I have a lot of questions since I have an L99 but I'm not looking to blow a ring

Im in the same boat. Hopefully as this thread progresses we will both learn more about it. Good responses and help so far.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217103

Are you changing your plugs too?

Thank you I'm looking into it

Yes, from what I have been reading and what shop guy was saying. I would be ok on the stock type plug, (maybe a better quality one but same heat rating), up to a 75 shot. From 100 to 150, (150 is all I plan to go to), one step colder good quality plug would be needed. Once I get all installed I will be trying the 50 and 75 out on stock plug with no timing retard yet. Everything I read and what the tuner shop guy was saying jives with that, even with canned tune. And before the flaming starts, I have worked with this guy before and he has seen his fair shair of nitrous mistakes. AKA the stock civic guy trying to spray 200 dry to keep up with the big cars. So a little trust I am giving to him. I just dont know if higher than 91 octane fuel would be needed at 75, Im not worried about it at 50 but if it pings I gues ill know.....

Here is the suggested breakdown:

NGK Plug Part# = Shot Size
B6EFS(1 Step Colder) 3177 = 0-75
BR7EF(2 Steps Colder) 3346 = 75-150
B8EFS(3 Steps Colder) 1049 = 150-225
B9EFS(4 Steps Colder) 1085 = 225-300

Also recommended is to pull 2* per 50hp.

are people spraying through the shift?

Auto trans here, no worry about the shift. But WOT activated systems disengauge when you let off the throttle to shift. If you WOT shift....you could be at risk.

Thank you for this. Safe is always better. If I can't get a tune in my hypertech blank spot I will probably pull about 3-4 degrees of timing manually and just drive like that. With an underdrive pulley I probably wont even notice the pull.

Just curious, how do you plan to pull timing manually?
Also, you plan on lifting during the shift? A window switch has programmable rpm set points, a lower engage and an upper disengage. Therefore, you would not have to lift. You could keep your foot buried and let it shift in auto.
Do you plan on holding the n2o button in, lifting the pedal and the tapping the paddle?
Seems like room for human error.

Pulling timing manually was something the guy at the shop threw out there. After looking into to that I dont really see a way other than tuning. No lift shifting. Im gonna let it spray through the shifts.

Tuning, or an external timing retarder that could be activated when you press your N2O button.
Be aware that if for some reason you bounce off the rev limiter between shifts, the engine will cut the amount of fuel via injectors, and a few other things. That lean condition would be very bad. And on top of that, you have a dry system. When I got my tune, I requested that spark be cut and not fuel. Also I have the LNC2000 timing retarder, which has an upper or lower rpm set point for cutting spark.

Any update silver?

that lingenfelter timing box is what you need. You also need to verify what your timing map is first. Plus that fuel psi is stable. I wouldn't do it on the Hypertech...I actually asked one the guys that helped write that tune when I was beta testing for them that exact question...that's a nono. get it dyno tuned. A dry shot has to have the mapping in the tune for the fuel. A wet shot with it on the stock tune, a colder plug and timing pulled may work fine. That's a MAY though. I quit reading about midway down page 1...hopefully you figured that out.

With no solenoid? What will keep the fuel from spraying all the time?!?

You should rethink all this before you blow it up. Don't reinvent the wheel. Either get a nitrous tune for your car, or get a wet kit and a timing controller.

Ok we are getting into it now. BadBubba, I have been out of town for a couple days. I haven't even finished the install yet, (almost there though). I am going slow with this so I dont make mistakes, and like I stated earlier I am new to nitrous, so I am not taking chances or rushing. I take it the Hypertech is out. I get that. I am being told by the manufacturer of this kit and the shop tuner that I am ok to spray 75-100 dry into the MAF on stock timing with one step colder plug and the pump and injectors will take care of the rest, for 150 its a whole new ball park. I also hear the need to pull timing, 2 degrees per 50hp. Manufacturer intructions, (as per a phone call to them), states that I will be ok with this setup on my engine to 100 HP dry with pulling only 2 degrees of timing and the one step colder plug, again fuel pump and injectors will be ok. So here is my next question: To be able to spray the 100 all the time, like at the track or screwing around on the street, I will need that LNC200 to pull timing for me, and the one step colder plug. What is confusing me is the need for fuel mapping in the tune for only a 100 shot. The MAF sould see the extra oxygen molecule and push the injectors to match. I mean that is the whole concept of how the dry shot works, right? Obviously wet is safer and needed for higher spray levels, but a few guys have laughed at me for not just spraying the 100 shot now the way I am setup even with the hypertech. Thanks for all the replies, just fishing for the info here.

PS, just for the record, there are quite a few people messaging me as well as guys I run into on the street saying that this engine and how I am setup not will have no issue with the 100 shot dry, even with the hypertech. I will not name any names cause I dont want any bashing. Everyone is trying to be helpful.

Yes, I am not trying to be a dumbass here. I am probably at some point going to make it a wet kit. With the throttle body plate and nitrous in one side and a fuel line with solenoid wired to relay switch and activation box. I know my posts are all over the place, but I am trying to learn here. Thanks for the concern. And also I am going to get a wideband or some way to montior A/F ratios before I even fire off the 50 shot. I still have a ways to go before I try it.

The mafs does not read oxygen molecules, it reads air temp and the mass of air coming in.

IMHO your doing it wrong. You'll need the LPE unit and a custom NOS tune when you arm the system. That's something you can't do with a handheld devise. Just my .2

PS, just for the record, there are quite a few people messaging me as well as guys I run into on the street saying that this engine and how I am setup not will have no issue with the 100 shot dry, even with the hypertech. I will not name any names cause I dont want any bashing. Everyone is trying to be helpful.[/QUOTE]

Don't know why they would just pm you and not post. They may be able to add something that could be helpful to others. As long as they can explain it in a concise manner with no mysteries.

MAF does not measure oxygen.