e85 and timing

[Oxtar41]

How much timing does e85 like? I had my car tuned and said I wanted a safe tune, not something on the ragged edge and they set it at 12 degrees for timing. I feel a lot has been left on the table as the car made 760whp / 770 tq on 18lbs from twin turbos with 12 degrees of timing. I have an appointment to get it re-tuned along with some smaller injectors as I have 1700's now and they are just too big. How much timing should I reliably shoot for?

[gtstorey]

Whatever the dyno tells you it wants without it knocking.

[dreksnot]

Not able to answer your question as each motor/setup will require different "asks."

Super general, might be able to add 4-7 degrees timing on the top pump gas tune end. And, this so very much depends on compression, fuel grade and percentage alcohol, plenty of other factors. The answer about what the dyno tells you is accurate, or a good street tune.

[Oxtar41]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

Not able to answer your question as each motor/setup will require different "asks."

Super general, might be able to add 4-7 degrees timing on the top pump gas tune end. And, this so very much depends on compression, fuel grade and percentage alcohol, plenty of other factors. The answer about what the dyno tells you is accurate, or a good street tune.

Definitely understand that, I just see / hear about a lot of guys running 24-26+ degrees of timing with e85 and are making 900+ wheel on SBE motors with 15-16lbs. Im at 18 and making 760 wheel with 12 degrees, I just feel like there's a lot left on the table.

[gtstorey]

Unless things have changed, 900rwhp is safe on SBE.

[dreksnot]

When I had my SBE on twins, I could run 13* at 15psi on E66 for 745whp.

[Oxtar41]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

When I had my SBE on twins, I could run 13* at 15psi on E66 for 745whp.

I'm fully forged, twin garret 3582's, and 18lbs I feel like I should be well above 760whp on E85 or no? I have a fore innovations triple pump set up so there's plenty of fuel. Previously on pump / meth the car made 780whp / 869 tq on 15 psi. Now its 760whp / 770 tq on E only and 3 more lbs.

[dreksnot]

Originally Posted by Oxtar41

I'm fully forged, twin garret 3582's, and 18lbs I feel like I should be well above 760whp on E85 or no? I have a fore innovations triple pump set up so there's plenty of fuel. Previously on pump / meth the car made 780whp / 869 tq on 15 psi. Now its 760whp / 770 tq on E only and 3 more lbs.

How does the car feel? What lambda was targeted at WOT? As to the question of expecting more hp - maybe... likely....

[Oxtar41]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

How does the car feel? What lambda was targeted at WOT? As to the question of expecting more hp - maybe... likely....

it pulls like a freight train up top. down low is sluggish but thats an injector issue. Injectors are only at 4-6% duty cycle below 3000 rpm (1700 cc injectors I bought the car with them in it) even at WOT and 7k rpm they are like 25% duty cycle. I have a new set of 1200's i need to get in and have it retuned though as the current ones are just overkill and lazy. On WOT pulls my lambda was like .80 iirc i could be wrong on that though

[dreksnot]

Originally Posted by Oxtar41

it pulls like a freight train up top. down low is sluggish but thats an injector issue. Injectors are only at 4-6% duty cycle below 3000 rpm (1700 cc injectors I bought the car with them in it) even at WOT and 7k rpm they are like 25% duty cycle. I have a new set of 1200's i need to get in and have it retuned though as the current ones are just overkill and lazy. On WOT pulls my lambda was like .80 iirc i could be wrong on that though

What brand of 1700 injectors? I have a set of ID1700x and they run fine at idle on octane and E.

I run more timing in higher loads and less timing at no to low loads. That's just how E works, I suppose. This was my Flex Fuel Spark modifier table when I ran my SBE LS3 - it worked on my setup.

[Oxtar41]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

What brand of 1700 injectors? I have a set of ID1700x and they run fine at idle on octane and E.

I run more timing in higher loads and less timing at no to low loads. That's just how E works, I suppose. This was my Flex Fuel Spark modifier table when I ran my SBE LS3 - it worked on my setup.

FIC (connection) 1700's. They aren't bosch though (I cant remember what my tuner told me they were) and from what my tuner is telling me since they arent bosch the factory ecu which I have is too slow to command these specific injectors fast enough to fire properly. If that makes sense.

[RichTurbo2010]

My setup on a 2010 Camaro is stroked 416,twin turbos 62/66.Bosch 210 (2100cc) injectors.Injectors were $579 flow matched. E85 and meth injection.I run 19 degs. timing at low boost (below 10 psi)and scales down to 17 degs at high boost.Makes over 1000rwhp.My injector duty cycle at idle is .5% and idles fine.https://youtu.be/VGmqxJP92Mo