2011 Camaro 3.6 vs 2011 Mustang 3.7

[syr74]

No doubt about it, the V6 Mustang will absolutely outrun the V6 Camaro in every respect. The questions are......

1........does the existing market for these cars actually care?

2........how many folks who wouldn't previously have considered a base Mustang might now be swayed by what is increasingly looking to be a solid 13 second base model with better than 2010 GT Track Pack handling?

Of course everything will be a guess until the market itself gives us an answer. Still, I think the 2011 V6 Mustang could very well prove to be the biggest surprise in the ponycar realm since the 1982 Mustang GT as never before has every available version of any ponycar been a genuinely fast car.

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by syr74

No doubt about it, the V6 Mustang will absolutely outrun the V6 Camaro in every respect. The questions are......

1........does the existing market for these cars actually care?

2........how many folks who wouldn't previously have considered a base Mustang might now be swayed by what is increasingly looking to be a solid 13 second base model with better than 2010 GT Track Pack handling?

Of course everything will be a guess until the market itself gives us an answer. Still, I think the 2011 V6 Mustang could very well prove to be the biggest surprise in the ponycar realm since the 1982 Mustang GT as never before has every available version of any ponycar been a genuinely fast car.

For the time, the 4th gen camaro V6 versions had decent performance, and certainly a lot better than the same generation mustangs. And you make it sound like there is this huge difference all of a sudden between the Camaro V6 and the Mustang V6. We may be looking at 0.2 seconds difference in 1/4 mile time. I don't think that puts it in a different league than the Camaro. I don't think most people could even feel much difference between the two. And a car that may dip into the 13's on a great day is not what most would call a "solid" 13 second car.

Your "facts" (which are mostly opinions) are about as skewed as always. It is nice to know who I should ask what the definition for "genuinely fast" is in the future, I need to write down your contact info.

[mrray13]

Originally Posted by syr74

No doubt about it, the V6 Mustang will absolutely outrun the V6 Camaro in every respect. The questions are......

1........does the existing market for these cars actually care?

2........how many folks who wouldn't previously have considered a base Mustang might now be swayed by what is increasingly looking to be a solid 13 second base model with better than 2010 GT Track Pack handling?

Of course everything will be a guess until the market itself gives us an answer. Still, I think the 2011 V6 Mustang could very well prove to be the biggest surprise in the ponycar realm since the 1982 Mustang GT as never before has every available version of any ponycar been a genuinely fast car.

Solidly a 13 second car? Like you eventually state later, let's wait until the car gets here. The Mustang has proved time and again to be less then a stellar performer then it's paper stats say it should be. I do hope it is as solid as Ford is hinting at, but I'll wait until I see it till I believe it.

Toss in the fact that the Camaro performs far better then it's weight would say it should. All we hear is how heavy of a pig it is, how it doesn't handle, yet the SS finished just behind the GT500 at the 'ring and the Hennessy version killed the SuperSnake with less horsepower/more weight. Heck the SuperSnake couldn't even beat the standard GT500 around Willow Springs.

What I'm trying to say is don't put your foot in your mouth just yet, but I'd at least wash it ahead of time. If the v6 Mustang does indeed beat the v6 Camaro, awesome! It won't be all hype. But if it doesn't, you can go ahead, quote yourself above and insert that foot. Let's wait for it to get here before these comments, "No doubt about it, the V6 Mustang will absolutely outrun the V6 Camaro in every respect., are made. What happens on paper doesn't always translate into what happens on the street.

For whatever it's worth, I hope your right. Then Chevy will have to step up their game again! It is fun to be in a muscle car era!

[Stew]

Originally Posted by mrray13

Solidly a 13 second car? Like you eventually state later, let's wait until the car gets here. The Mustang has proved time and again to be less then a stellar performer then it's paper stats say it should be. I do hope it is as solid as Ford is hinting at, but I'll wait until I see it till I believe it.

Toss in the fact that the Camaro performs far better then it's weight would say it should. All we hear is how heavy of a pig it is, how it doesn't handle, yet the SS finished just behind the GT500 at the 'ring and the Hennessy version killed the SuperSnake with less horsepower/more weight. Heck the SuperSnake couldn't even beat the standard GT500 around Willow Springs.

What I'm trying to say is don't put your foot in your mouth just yet, but I'd at least wash it ahead of time. If the v6 Mustang does indeed beat the v6 Camaro, awesome! It won't be all hype. But if it doesn't, you can go ahead, quote yourself above and insert that foot. Let's wait for it to get here before these comments, "No doubt about it, the V6 Mustang will absolutely outrun the V6 Camaro in every respect., are made. What happens on paper doesn't always translate into what happens on the street.

For whatever it's worth, I hope your right. Then Chevy will have to step up their game again! It is fun to be in a muscle car era!

I agree wait until it's out and see, but really, the Mustang usually performas BETTER in real life than on paper. 2010 GT, Terminator, fox 5.0s whippin' up on 350 Camaros and Firebirds.

[Ninjak]

I love how .1 sec is wiping up the Supersnake. Put some REAL tires on the Snake and do the test over. Or better yet, drop the same tires on both cars, and then do the tests.

Heh but we know that will not happpen. You guys here need to hold on to that pipe dream as long as you can. The same guys are the ones who claim the GT500 can only do a mid sec 12 1/4 because mortor trend said so. lol

[syr74]

Originally Posted by rayhawk

For the time, the 4th gen camaro V6 versions had decent performance, and certainly a lot better than the same generation mustangs. And you make it sound like there is this huge difference all of a sudden between the Camaro V6 and the Mustang V6. We may be looking at 0.2 seconds difference in 1/4 mile time. I don't think that puts it in a different league than the Camaro. I don't think most people could even feel much difference between the two. And a car that may dip into the 13's on a great day is not what most would call a "solid" 13 second car.

Your "facts" (which are mostly opinions) are about as skewed as always. It is nice to know who I should ask what the definition for "genuinely fast" is in the future, I need to write down your contact info.

Actually, you would have been better served if you had simply looked at the data. Let's start by comparing engines.....

Ford 3.7L V6: 305hp @ 6500rpm; 280lb-ft/tq @ 4250 rpm (Mustang)

GM 3.6L V6: 304hp @ 6,400rpm; 273lb-ft/tq @ 5,200 rpm (Camaro)

....looks close, until you start looking closer. Mustang makes 7lb-ft more torque at the peak, which isn't huge by any stretch of the imagination. However, it reaches that peak just shy of 1,000rpm earlier than does the Chevy which is a pretty big gap to say the least. In fact, however small the difference may be in some cases every spec. on these two engines favors the Mustang without exception, as we see above some by more than a little.

Throw in gearing (as it relates to acceleration) and we see that the Mustang has a meaningful advantage in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears, is a dead heat in second, and only gives ground in first. And this isn't taking into consideration the Mustang's shorter tire package as Camaro's overall tire diameter is more than one inch larger than the Mustang's, which in turn means that I am being more than kind to the Camaro to in this regard to say the least.

Gear.......Ford.........Chevy
1...........4.236........4.48
2...........2.538........2.58
3...........1.635........1.63
4...........1.238........1.19
5...........1.000........1.00
6............0.70..........75
axle.......3.31:1.......3.27:1

Throw in the fact that the Mustang produces peak torque roughly 1000 rpm before the Camaro does and the difference widens. More torque across a broader power band means the Mustang can make better use of every one of those gears, and here again we end up in a situation where nearly every advantage goes to the Mustang.

Finally, when you consider the fact that Ford has already stated that the V6 Mustang with Performance Pack will weigh in under 3500lb you have a minimum 250lb weight difference between these two cars since GM lists a base, 6M Camaro V6 at 3741lb.....and again that is a best case scenario for the Camaro. Put simply, weight alone should account for about a two and a half tenth of a second difference in the 1/4 mile, the Mustang's superior torque curve/production and superior overall gearing factor in on top of that.

Slightly more peak torque which arrives nearly 1000rpm earlier and sticks around a little longer, superior overall gearing in the first five forward gears, and minimum 250lb weight advantage? That's all fact and, as yet, I can find but one isolated area where we can argue that the Camaro has an edge (first gear) and I had to leave some info (tire diameter) out of the equation to even manage that.

Originally Posted by mrray13

Solidly a 13 second car? Like you eventually state later, let's wait until the car gets here. The Mustang has proved time and again to be less then a stellar performer then it's paper stats say it should be. I do hope it is as solid as Ford is hinting at, but I'll wait until I see it till I believe it.

Almost anything can happen, but the more info we have the greater the disparity between the V6 Camaro and the V6 Mustang appears. Ford is going to have to try pretty hard to botch this one, and the info we have right now says that this isn't going to be nearly as close as some want to believe.

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by syr74

Actually, you would have been better served if you had simply looked at the data. Let's start by comparing engines.....

Ford 3.7L V6: 305hp @ 6500rpm; 280lb-ft/tq @ 4250 rpm (Mustang)

GM 3.6L V6: 304hp @ 6,400rpm; 273lb-ft/tq @ 5,200 rpm (Camaro)

....looks close, until you start looking closer. Mustang makes 7lb-ft more torque at the peak, which isn't huge by any stretch of the imagination. However, it reaches that peak just shy of 1,000rpm earlier than does the Chevy which is a pretty big gap to say the least. In fact, however small the difference may be in some cases every spec. on these two engines favors the Mustang without exception, as we see above some by more than a little.

Throw in gearing (as it relates to acceleration) and we see that the Mustang has a meaningful advantage in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears, is a dead heat in second, and only gives ground in first. And this isn't taking into consideration the Mustang's shorter tire package as Camaro's overall tire diameter is more than one inch larger than the Mustang's, which in turn means that I am being more than kind to the Camaro to in this regard to say the least.

Gear.......Ford.........Chevy
1...........4.236........4.48
2...........2.538........2.58
3...........1.635........1.63
4...........1.238........1.19
5...........1.000........1.00
6............0.70..........75
axle.......3.31:1.......3.27:1

Throw in the fact that the Mustang produces peak torque roughly 1000 rpm before the Camaro does and the difference widens. More torque across a broader power band means the Mustang can make better use of every one of those gears, and here again we end up in a situation where nearly every advantage goes to the Mustang.

Finally, when you consider the fact that Ford has already stated that the V6 Mustang with Performance Pack will weigh in under 3500lb you have a minimum 250lb weight difference between these two cars since GM lists a base, 6M Camaro V6 at 3741lb.....and again that is a best case scenario for the Camaro. Put simply, weight alone should account for about a two and a half second difference in the 1/4 mile, the Mustang's superior torque curve/production and superior overall gearing factor in on top of that.

Slightly more peak torque which arrives nearly 1000rpm earlier and sticks around a little longer, superior overall gearing in the first five forward gears, and minimum 250lb weight advantage? That's all fact and, as yet, I can find but one isolated area where we can argue that the Camaro has an edge (first gear) and I had to leave some info (tire diameter) out of the equation to even manage that.



Almost anything can happen, but the more info we have the greater the disparity between the V6 Camaro and the V6 Mustang appears. Ford is going to have to try pretty hard to botch this one, and the info we have right now says that this isn't going to be nearly as close as some want to believe.

None of that makes the Mustang V6 move to a different league than the Camaro V6. The reality is they are at a similar level as of 2011, for the first time in a very long time. I am not taking anything away from Ford's effort here, you are just blowing the difference out of proportion. The LLT has only slightly less than peak torque at 4200 rpm, so I dont think that will account for much difference.

[mrray13]

Originally Posted by Stew

I agree wait until it's out and see, but really, the Mustang usually performas BETTER in real life than on paper. 2010 GT, Terminator, fox 5.0s whippin' up on 350 Camaros and Firebirds.

The Terminator I agree is a badass ride, but the other fox 5.0s never beat a 350 Camaro that I can recall. The 2010 is a decent performer, true, but not stellar, unless it has a track pac.

Originally Posted by syr74

Put simply, weight alone should account for about a two and a half second difference in the 1/4 mile

So you're saying the v6 Mustang is going to be a 12 second car? Seriously? Okay. I just can't see it being that quick, I can't. Will it be quicker then our Camaros? It should, it really should. It just might be. I'll still wait to see it. I just don't believe in all this paper drag racing.

Again, I hope it is, then Chevy will have to answer. The better Ford gets, the better Chevy has to get to stay even, or ahead.

[mrray13]

Originally Posted by Ninjak

I love how .1 sec is wiping up the Supersnake. Put some REAL tires on the Snake and do the test over. Or better yet, drop the same tires on both cars, and then do the tests.

Heh but we know that will not happpen. You guys here need to hold on to that pipe dream as long as you can. The same guys are the ones who claim the GT500 can only do a mid sec 12 1/4 because mortor trend said so. lol

I know you're suspended, but I still gotta respond. .1 is a car length, a car length to a car that had more horspower, less weight. Yes, the Mustang had traction issues, yet it had the same tires that factory SSs run with, Pirelli PZeros. I would also agree that they should run them again on the same tire, but I could also counter with that wasn't even the Hennessy that was supposed to be there, it was a smaller one. The HPE 750 was supposed to run, not the 650. So where would that leave us?

[scrming]

pretty simply... line'em up and see what happens! Looking forward to seeing the new V6 Mustang at the track this summer...

[mrray13]

Originally Posted by scrming

pretty simply... line'em up and see what happens! Looking forward to seeing the new V6 Mustang at the track this summer...

x2!!


i can't wait either! There are several Mustangs in the local club I just joined, one a stock 2009 GT. Looking forward to playing at the strip!

[syr74]

Originally Posted by mrray13

So you're saying the v6 Mustang is going to be a 12 second car? Seriously? Okay. I just can't see it being that quick, I can't.

I can't either, which is why I fixed that typo nearly 24 hours before your response and changed it to tenths of second. That in turn begs the question, how did you end up quoting a typo I fixed almost a full day before you made your post?

[mrray13]

Originally Posted by syr74

I can't either, which is why I fixed that typo nearly 24 hours before your response and changed it to tenths of second. That in turn begs the question, how did you end up quoting a typo I fixed almost a full day before you made your post?

LMAO..I have no clue!! Now that you have clarified that for me, I'll agree that on paper the new Mustang should be 2-2.5 tenths faster.

Now we wait and see if you are correct!

[jleinaweaver]

Originally Posted by syr74

Slightly more peak torque which arrives nearly 1000rpm earlier and sticks around a little longer, superior overall gearing in the first five forward gears, and minimum 250lb weight advantage?

So to summarize, Ford made the V6 for the guy who has a fat chick in the passenger seat.