Richmond 4.10 impression after first 60 miles.

[Moorepheus]

Getting up to speed is an issue in STOCK rear end of 2SS? Really? I can agree there seems to be a LUG in first, but I point the finger to myself with that, not driving a standard in over 12 years. But Getting up to speed. I am up to speed in 2nd gear and pretty quick. I guess coming from an Equinox w/ a V6 to a 2SS Camaro, I think it's fast.

However, great write up.

[2010 2-Tone]

Originally Posted by gearhead440

Using Excel, I received the following for the listed combination. This is not data from the car and does not take into account wind resistance, temperature, etc, just a demonstration of how the math works for gear ratios and speed:

Assumptions:
Tire diameter: 28 inch
Transmission/rear end gear ratio: 1:1 (4th gear, nominal value)
Rear end gear ratios: 3.45 and 4.10

RPM MPH 3.45 MPH 4.10
1000 24 20
2000 48 41
3000 72 61
4000 97 81
5000 121 102
6000 145 122

You don't see an appreciable differnence until around 3,000 rpm, but the difference at 40,00 rpm and beyond is very noticable.

Just numbers and food for thought.

Hey Gearhead, can you do that formula in 6th gear cruising so we can see the difference at 65,70,75, and 80?

[CAP'N B]

Has Anyone done a change with the A6, isn't the gears on the V8 A6 3.24's, I've done a change on my truck from 3.42 to 4.10's and it really brought my truck to life. This change was about .5:1 change. I would consider going to the 3.73's for the A6

[GQ4Life]

4.10s a little tight for me.. If i did decide to do gears I think I'd be looking for 3.73's..
4.10s for drag strips with slicks..

[nuptualnemesis]

You need 4:30 or 4:50 gear in an M6 to go through the traps over 6,000rpm to max out quarte mile. I ran a gear calculator program for cruise at 70mph in 6th, comparing the stock 3.73 with a 4.50 and rpm went from 1,786 to 2,155. I can live with that.

gear calculator:
http://www.richmondgear.com/101032.html
use .57 for 6th and 1.0 for 4th

[2010 2-Tone]

Originally Posted by nuptualnemesis

You need 4:30 or 4:50 gear in an M6 to go through the traps over 6,000rpm to max out quarte mile. I ran a gear calculator program for cruise at 70mph in 6th, comparing the stock 3.73 with a 4.50 and rpm went from 1,786 to 2,155. I can live with that.

gear calculator:
http://www.richmondgear.com/101032.html
use .57 for 6th and 1.0 for 4th

Did you mean that the stock 3.42 gear was at 1786 and the 4.50 gear was at 2155rpm in 6th at 70mph?

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by GQ4Life

4.10s a little tight for me.. If i did decide to do gears I think I'd be looking for 3.73's..
4.10s for drag strips with slicks..

My thoughts exactly.

[GeorgeM]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

Well, let me start off by saying I know there are faster, better performing Camaros out there than mine. I didn't dive head first into mods and get the full monty right off the bat. I am not interested in the forced induction and I am waiting for C5F to check out all the intakes, headers and exhausts. On the other hand, I didn't want to head down there as a stocker so... I sent my car off the Craig and Tracey at CincySpeed to give him a once over.

They installed a drop in K&N... well I did. Did I get chaged labor for that? ... just kidding, they installed Richmond 4.10s, Pfadt poly dif. bushings and gave it a tune.

When I dropped it off I was a little disappointed in the numbers...

356HP/366TQ stock
363HP/363TQ with K&N only and crazy rich over 4500rpm.

So, I left him in their hands to work their magic. I will say these guys were GREAT getting my gears and install kit when they seemed to be so illusive. The came in on Friday and the car was there Monday evening. Now the next two days were level 2 snow emergency days so I figured... eh, surely nothing is done on my car. Well I got a message on Thursday that the car is on the dyno getting tuned! SWEET, you can't stop these guys! So anyhow, today I went and picked it up.

First they went over the dyno results. Again I was a little disappointed in the peak numbers....

357HP/373TQ... BUT that HP is peak at 6000 rpm. I am NEVER at 6000 rpm. The gains through the rest of the band were very respectable. Gains of 10-20 HP and TQ were consistant and the power band really leveled out as the car was not running lean then rich. Looked good on paper.

Now, time for my initial test drive impression. I could tell as I backed it out of their garage it was a world of difference. We pulled out and made our way down to a red light. Keep in mind this is an SS with stock tires and about 28 degrees so I knew traction was going to be an issue. As I pulled away from the first light, the start was effortless. I am not sure how to explain the stock feel but it was always very difficult to get started smoothly. Like the car would bog out then youd give some throttle and it would start out rough...THATS GONE. The car starts out so smoothe and effortless. As I ran through first, medium throttle (still warming up) it already felt more responsive from the tune. I always thought the car was a bit sluggish due to TQ management and the fact that the a/f ratio was all over the place. It just was not smooth acceleration. It never seemed to want to go, like I had to force it. Now it just begs for more! As I ran through first to second to third to forth (all medium to low throttle) the car seemed so different in how it was running. I could tell the tune really did something positive, even though the numbers didnt show a lot.

OK... So now the car is all warmed up and I get on a road where I can get on it a little so I try, little success in first due to lack of traction but you could really tell the car felt more "at home" with the new gear. There is still plenty of first gear to go around. Once I got to second/third/fourth (agressive throttle) and got some traction... The car pulled and pulled and PULLED. WOW.

Back to the shop to drop off Tracey and I head on my way home. About a 60 mile trip with all roadway types. Bumper to bumper interstate, clear interstate, local two lane, country two lane, gravel snow covered... The car was FLAWLESS. This really is the gear the car wants. I am not sure how to put it into words... I really played with it on the way home. Aggressive starts and accelerations, cruising in 4th, 5th and 6th... the car feels perfect.

Prior to dropping it off I tested my speed/RPM in 6th (cruise set)
55mph - 1500 rpm
65mph - 1750 rpm
75mph - 2000 rpm
Ave MPG - 18.3

after the 4.10s (I reset th MPG meter)
55mph - 1600 rpm
65mph - 1850 rpm
75mph - 2200 rpm
Ave MPG after 60 miles - 18.1

You really dont notice any change at 55 but as you get going, it does tach a bit higher. Still a very nice cruising RPM.

With the 4.10s by gear:

1st - improved starts, less lug. Effortless to get the car moving smoothly
2nd/3rd - not much change, just a means to 4th
4th - OMG does this car love 4th. It is like power on demand at any speed! It keeps you right in the sweet spot.
5th - actually becomes more usable. There was plenty of power to pass without having to go to 4th
6th - not much change, still a wonderful over drive gear. Still have to downshift to pass but 5th will usually do.


Well, thats about all I can think of to write. I can't really put into words the vast improvement of the driving experience. I know a lot is because of the tune but the gears are also PERFECT. You won't notice any MPG change cruising at 55-75 as the crusing rpm (in 6th) doesnt change much unless you are over 75mph.

I hope this helps, if you have any questions, feel free to drop me a line.

Thanks
~JR

What about your analog and digital speedometers, have they been recalibrated to match the gear change? If not, then your speedo is way off.

GeorgeM

[Roger Ramjet]

Originally Posted by GQ4Life

4.10s a little tight for me.. If i did decide to do gears I think I'd be looking for 3.73's..
4.10s for drag strips with slicks..

Normally, I would agree that 3.73 gears are perfect for the street. But, the 20 inch wheels on these cars make the 4.10s necessary and very impressive. Launch the car, get your eyes to the tach because it's time to shift.

I never hit the rev limiter in this car until the gears got changed. Now, I have to pay attention to the tach because the engine noise is less with less load.

[mmbarberoilman]

It just amazes me how a year can change peoples attitudes. I got my car a year ago and complained it was not enough. Now EVERYBODY and his brother are buying parts and going faster. I was nailed to the cross to even have the nerve to even suggest the 400HP Camaro from god was in need of some gears and another 150 HP. Just amazing.

[mmbarberoilman]

Just as an after thought. It looks like a 4.30 gear and a decent 3000 stall converter would be about right.

[BoostedX2]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

Well, let me start off by saying I know there are faster, better performing Camaros out there than mine. I didn't dive head first into mods and get the full monty right off the bat. I am not interested in the forced induction and I am waiting for C5F to check out all the intakes, headers and exhausts. On the other hand, I didn't want to head down there as a stocker so... I sent my car off the Craig and Tracey at CincySpeed to give him a once over.

They installed a drop in K&N... well I did. Did I get chaged labor for that? ... just kidding, they installed Richmond 4.10s, Pfadt poly dif. bushings and gave it a tune.

When I dropped it off I was a little disappointed in the numbers...

356HP/366TQ stock
363HP/363TQ with K&N only and crazy rich over 4500rpm.

So, I left him in their hands to work their magic. I will say these guys were GREAT getting my gears and install kit when they seemed to be so illusive. The came in on Friday and the car was there Monday evening. Now the next two days were level 2 snow emergency days so I figured... eh, surely nothing is done on my car. Well I got a message on Thursday that the car is on the dyno getting tuned! SWEET, you can't stop these guys! So anyhow, today I went and picked it up.

First they went over the dyno results. Again I was a little disappointed in the peak numbers....

357HP/373TQ... BUT that HP is peak at 6000 rpm. I am NEVER at 6000 rpm. The gains through the rest of the band were very respectable. Gains of 10-20 HP and TQ were consistant and the power band really leveled out as the car was not running lean then rich. Looked good on paper.

Now, time for my initial test drive impression. I could tell as I backed it out of their garage it was a world of difference. We pulled out and made our way down to a red light. Keep in mind this is an SS with stock tires and about 28 degrees so I knew traction was going to be an issue. As I pulled away from the first light, the start was effortless. I am not sure how to explain the stock feel but it was always very difficult to get started smoothly. Like the car would bog out then youd give some throttle and it would start out rough...THATS GONE. The car starts out so smoothe and effortless. As I ran through first, medium throttle (still warming up) it already felt more responsive from the tune. I always thought the car was a bit sluggish due to TQ management and the fact that the a/f ratio was all over the place. It just was not smooth acceleration. It never seemed to want to go, like I had to force it. Now it just begs for more! As I ran through first to second to third to forth (all medium to low throttle) the car seemed so different in how it was running. I could tell the tune really did something positive, even though the numbers didnt show a lot.

OK... So now the car is all warmed up and I get on a road where I can get on it a little so I try, little success in first due to lack of traction but you could really tell the car felt more "at home" with the new gear. There is still plenty of first gear to go around. Once I got to second/third/fourth (agressive throttle) and got some traction... The car pulled and pulled and PULLED. WOW.

Back to the shop to drop off Tracey and I head on my way home. About a 60 mile trip with all roadway types. Bumper to bumper interstate, clear interstate, local two lane, country two lane, gravel snow covered... The car was FLAWLESS. This really is the gear the car wants. I am not sure how to put it into words... I really played with it on the way home. Aggressive starts and accelerations, cruising in 4th, 5th and 6th... the car feels perfect.

Prior to dropping it off I tested my speed/RPM in 6th (cruise set)
55mph - 1500 rpm
65mph - 1750 rpm
75mph - 2000 rpm
Ave MPG - 18.3

after the 4.10s (I reset th MPG meter)
55mph - 1600 rpm
65mph - 1850 rpm
75mph - 2200 rpm
Ave MPG after 60 miles - 18.1

You really dont notice any change at 55 but as you get going, it does tach a bit higher. Still a very nice cruising RPM.

With the 4.10s by gear:

1st - improved starts, less lug. Effortless to get the car moving smoothly
2nd/3rd - not much change, just a means to 4th
4th - OMG does this car love 4th. It is like power on demand at any speed! It keeps you right in the sweet spot.
5th - actually becomes more usable. There was plenty of power to pass without having to go to 4th
6th - not much change, still a wonderful over drive gear. Still have to downshift to pass but 5th will usually do.


Well, thats about all I can think of to write. I can't really put into words the vast improvement of the driving experience. I know a lot is because of the tune but the gears are also PERFECT. You won't notice any MPG change cruising at 55-75 as the crusing rpm (in 6th) doesnt change much unless you are over 75mph.

I hope this helps, if you have any questions, feel free to drop me a line.

Thanks
~JR

Anyone out there--is there a consensus whether the Richmond Gears are as strong as the stock ring and pinion?? Just wondering--vendors can chime in... Thanks!!