Camaro 'Muscle car' shows weak planning, NDP says

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by onlynotyou_ss

WOW!
that was more bias than FOX news

But combined those would only add up to 0.032% of the MSNBC bias.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by garfin

http://www.ls1fbody.com/The%20Return...0in%202007.htm

I'd suggest that awarding Oshawa the 5th Gen Camaro was a measured PR move by GM to avoid possible litigation by the CAW and make amends to the taxpayers in Canada/Quebec who for all intents and purposes, fronted the $220 million loan back then in 1987. What they took away from the CAW in 2002, they are returning in 2008/2009.

Best regardSS,

Elie

Good read Elie but I fail to see how Quebec benefits by Oshawa getting the Camaro. They are still owed half the loan despite having no plant. I do remember CAW harping about the issue when the plant selection process was underway for the Camaro but they were playing the game like everyone else. Did they really have a strong case when 90% of the Ste. Therese employees were taken care of by 2005?

I believe the Ste. Therese issue was only one element in the decision process as Oshawa also had to make concessions to get it by agreeing to become a Flex plant amongst other things. In hindsight, that may have actually saved Oshawa from the wrecking ball as it now becomes a viable option for just about any of GM's future regular production vehicles.

[Captain Awesome]

Why would anyone care about gas mileage anymore? This morning I saw $1.99 a gallon on my local corner station.

[fireresq157]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Canadians all think the same eh? Paint them all with the same brush why don't ya. As far as Oshawa getting the Camaro, it is the highest quality/productive plant that GM has. They deserve to get it, plain and simple. BTW - how do you like your Z4C?

The 4th gens don't hold up too well down here with the sun unless there garage kept and your on top of them 364 days of the year, I've owned 3 the last is the Z4C used the previous owner didn't take good care of it. I'm in the process of restoring it to like new condition. I have half of the interior waiting to install. Anyhow I like Canada and Canadians their nice people and it's a beautiful country. I'm not trying to paint everyone with a brush, like I said most I believe would agree the statement the government released was crap. People should have the choice.

The ones I owned were in good condition just V6's wanted something more unique.

[fireresq157]

Originally Posted by Stevo

Personally I think they have a point. Maybe if GM could cut the Camaro down to 2900 lbs and make it a 300 HP hybrid- I think 30 MPG in the city would be welcome!!!....I always thought burning gas while waiting in traffic was stupid -yes I suppose I could cut the motor off but why not have technology do it?

The problem with these governments is that one one side they mandate better MPG but on the other hand they mandate better safety construction that adds hundreds of pounds of weight. Added weight = less MPG. Check out the average weight of cars in generals has increased over the last 25 years.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Why would anyone care about gas mileage anymore? This morning I saw $1.99 a gallon on my local corner station.

Because it could double in price within a year.

[garfin]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Good read Elie but I fail to see how Quebec benefits by Oshawa getting the Camaro. They are still owed half the loan despite having no plant. I do remember CAW harping about the issue when the plant selection process was underway for the Camaro but they were playing the game like everyone else. Did they really have a strong case when 90% of the Ste. Therese employees were taken care of by 2005?

I believe the Ste. Therese issue was only one element in the decision process as Oshawa also had to make concessions to get it by agreeing to become a Flex plant amongst other things. In hindsight, that may have actually saved Oshawa from the wrecking ball as it now becomes a viable option for just about any of GM's future regular production vehicles.

I agree that Quebec does not benefit directly from the decision to build the Camaro in Oshawa.
Ste. Therese was the only plant in Quebec that GM had. Since GM tore it down, it was evident that the company had no intention of building any further products in that province (too far away from the major markets, issues with language/communication).
However, if it can be accepted that GM (for whatever motivation) was still trying to placate the CAW by replacing jobs that were lost in Ste. Therese, giving the Camaro to a Canadian facility was the next best thing since there wasn't a factory in Quebec any longer - and especially given the previous obligation that GM had to build a car called "Camaro" at Ste. Therese.
I do know that even after Ste. Therese was torn down, the idea of naming the 5th Gen car something other than Camaro was considered in order to avoid possible legal issues that might have reared up as a result of this obligation...

There's an awful lot of "politicking" among the involved parties that goes on with respect to decisions like these - far more than I'm familiar with or may even be able to comprehend, but it seems that the decision to build the Camaro in Oshawa had been made well before it was officially announced. At the time, I was totally convinced that the plant in Wilmington, Delaware was gonna get it.

Best regardSS,

Elie

[MerF]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Why would anyone care about gas mileage anymore? This morning I saw $1.99 a gallon on my local corner station.

This will not last, that's just about the only thing you can count on right now.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by crazz28

They have all these flowery ideas of cars that run a million mpg that only exhaust fluffy bunny rabbits and rainbows.

[The_Blur]

:bangdesk: Are we still discussing this rubbish?

[chevydude26]

I hate these global warming starbucks latte sipping softies....a lot...they want to dictate what we eat...what we drink...what we drive...

its an attack on freedom folks

We will not stand for this....Every car i buy will be from gm...

[Jas29]

I think hes a Ford fan

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Because it could double in price within a year.

Far-sighted thinking like that is not how people work in reality. They do the knee-jerk thing with no thought of future consequences. Why else do people jump to get upside-down on payments to Priuses? The same effect will have truck sales booming and SUV's back in vogue, provided the loan channels get unclogged.

[TJ91]

Camaro vs Civic, great comparison, wow! Mabe Prius vs Lamborghini next, and the Smart Car verse the F22 Raptor,