Inside Line: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Comparison

[nanokpsi]

Originally Posted by oortcloud

OK, got it. Step 1) wait for a mag review to post a crappy time. Step 2) release the real video.

Interesting strategy. I prefer GMs strategy where they jump directly to step 2.

lol
As do I. I think it is just SVT's stance that the lap times are done as a benchmark, and not as a marketting tool. I can see that somewhat as you can't really compare times form different days, months or years and hope to take anything super meaningfull away from it; especially when you are talking about small differences in times. It is still fun to compare though

[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

BS you have never driven in the mountians of east Tennessee you don't have to drive Balls to the wall, the difference is being able to take a 25 mph hairpin at 25 or 50, drag times don't mean a lot in the corners and every where I have driven except for Texas and Florida, there are many more curves than straights.
But you missed my point if you think all people are going to do with their cars on the street is race Shelbys. That is against the law and if you get caught you lose your $ 60,000 car.

So going around a 25 mph hairpin a 50 mph isn't illegal.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by rez333

I disagree. In Europe, and Asia, the ZL1 and GT500 (North American prices) are down-right bargain basement pricing. The last I looked, Europeans/Asians generally aren't paid much higher than North Americans - and they pay more tax in Europe.

When a car's payment equals a payment on a $200,000. House that is not "affordable".

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by DanSS24

I think having a bigger supercharger has alot to do with that. I wish the ZL1 could accelerate faster also, but I think there was reason why Chevy went with the smaller supercharger.

I am reasonably sure that chevy put good thought into the car. I have doubts, though, that they anticipated the ferocity of ford's determination.

I might be a minority in this view but I feel that, despite the zl1's handling, the car will need to be more competitive in the acceleration and power ratings. Chevy entered into the ring to go after the ford; They can't say now that the vette is really the contender to the gt500. GM will need to turn up the notch (at least be competitive in the acceleration and power ratings, if not dominant) to the zl1.

BTW: The ford's handling wasn't too shabby as well. Beware.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Oh, but since 'Ring times are "irrelevant", and Lightning Laps emulate "real world drivers", many consider the Lightning Lap as a true North American result.

Perhaps the youtube guy would have improved by 5 or 6 seconds in the BOSS?

And we all know Inside Line drivers...aren't...don't we?!

I think SVT would like you to believe they have a Mustang for road-racy stuff (BOSS LS) and another for 1/4-mile sprints (GT500). It speaks to the Mustang group that they have TWO choices...and they buy more Shelbys than BOSSes.

The LL times you posted were done a year apart. That's as relevant as me posting the 2:58 video. I really don't know what your point is. You called me out as a liar, and I just showed you that what you are choosing to believe is not true. The GT500 is faster than the Boss LS, and it's not even running R compound tires like the LS, a fact many seem to forget. Does the Boss handle better, and is it more driver involved, and only loses due to the power deficit? I don't know, as nobody except for Inside Line has put them head to head on the same track, with the same driver, on the same day. And that was with an "average" magazine driver, and if he was able to get a better lap time in the GT500, which is supposed to be more of a handful and harder to drive than the LS, what does that tell you.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Repeating the same ol' mistruths doesn't make 'em any more truthful...

Lightning Lap '12 - 2012 BOSS LS = 3:02.8

Lightning Lap '11 - 2011 GT500 = 3:04.0

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...2-class-page-4

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...2-class-page-3

Haven't we already talked about this? You can't compare lap times from different days, let alone different YEARS, especially when they're that close, and draw a conclusion. There's a two second gap between a z06 and grand sport on the lightning lap lists in favor of the GRAND SPORT. They weren't run the same day, or even the same year, but hey the grand sport must be faster on track than the z06, right?

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to-2012-page-8

Look at some of the times put up on that list and tell me they're all accurate in regard to what happens when the cars are actually pitted against each other.

The only time the boss has been matched up with the gt500 on track, it was slower.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by rez333

No, but I guarantee no-one is pushing it on those roads. How can anyone do real track-like performance driving on any street? It's downright suicidal and dangerous to others - you'd need to use up at least 3 lanes to do it properly.

Some people are thinking that the fancy handling will count on the street - it simply won't. If you could push your car to the limits on a street enough feel the handling, you'd either be driving illegally or driving a car with average handling. I've never taken any on-ramp like I've taken a corner on a track - it's simply too dangerous and I'd have to cross lanes to do it.

Dude, we get it your about straight line. However some of us like a day in the mountains or canyons much better.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Dude, we get it your about straight line. However some of us like a day in the mountains or canyons much better.

I'm pretty sure he was saying he does track his car and driving on the track is nothing like driving on the street, or driving a canyon road is nothing like driving at the track. I agree. Canyon roads here don't have run off areas or tire walls.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by nanokpsi

Playing on back roads single file certainly does not have a direct correlation to what the road course times will be. Even if the road holding advantage does hold true, by running the cars in single file with the ZL1 in front, the HUGE acceleration advantage of the GT500 is nullified.
Have you even had an impromptu street brawl with a car that traps 8mph higher than you? Think stock SS vs a new corvette from a roll.The difference is quite large and the gap opens up very quickly. Clearly the advantage cannot be utilized in a back road situation.

Add to that the ZL1 is more confidence inspiring so the GT500 driver is probably not pushing the car to its true potential, and you can see what can happen.

Again, SVT has already beaten some of GMs published times for the ZL1, so the prudent people are wise to wait for true track comparisons before claiming victory. Otherwsie there might not be enough crow to go around.

Wow, are some living and dying by numbers? Sad!
I'm about enjoying what I have and not worrying what some may think. Oh my his car is faster by .3 seconds...really??? Very and I mean VERY few are that good.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

LD, don't you know that if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

That's called politics.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

Same arguments can be used for drag strip like acceleration on the street?

Exactly!!!

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Actually, my friends, you're BOTH right...

COPO 9560 was the Harrell/Gibb-Piggins effort to NHRA-sanction the L-88-based ZL1 engine assembly for drag racing...but there WAS an optional COPO 9737 "package" that put the Z/28 suspension/wheels-tires under the COPO 9560-9561 (L72) cars. Exactly TWO "ZL1" Camaros were built that way...

They must be worth extra BIG $$$$$$$

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Yes, the "Double COPO" Camaros. My intended point really was that the ZL1 was an engine RPO, and not a trim level as it is today, and that the 1969 COPO builds started with L78 SS trim as their base since the were big block cars and then the COPO package items were added to the base.

In 1969 there was no ZL1 Camaro trim package, and the Corvette could be ordered with the ZL1 engine, also.

Of which there were 2 I believe.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Wow, are some living and dying by numbers? Sad!
I'm about enjoying what I have and not worrying what some may think. Oh my his car is faster by .3 seconds...really??? Very and I mean VERY few are that good.

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

That's called politics.

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Exactly!!!

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

They must be worth extra BIG $$$$$$$

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Of which there were 2 I believe.

Multi quote for the love of god lol