07-11-2012, 08:20 PM | #1723 | |
Too Many Great Choices
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
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Quote:
Is the rear as set up in the 1LE not strong enough for the LS7? |
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07-11-2012, 08:47 PM | #1724 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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Quote:
I see the LS7 Z/28 coming out in the last 5th Gen model year. FI motors are great. Having said that, nothing says MUSCLE CAR like a Normally aspirated big cam motor that is uncomfortable at idle and has more TQ to the wheels than the driver has brains The L/28 puts down 600 to the rear wheels. The clutch is an on off switch. Gracefully engaging 1st gear requires 3,000 RPM, a bit of clutch slip and more throttle. From 3,000 to 7,000 RPM it makes more power than any remotely sane person would want. The exhaust is an ear splitting symphony. We get the power down through a full Pedders Suspension. We stop with a massive set of Brembo brakes. Most everyone that comes into contact with the car loves it, but says it is too much for a daily driver. I think it is PERFECT for a DD. A ZL1 based LS7 Z/28 with the cheapest set of wheels, tires, struts, coils and sway bars would make a perfect Z/28. The buyer could DIY or have Dealer installed full Pedders and a set of Forgeline 19x10.5 wheels shod with Bridgestone RE-11 305/30/19/XL tires. It is as close to a dream come true Camaro from the factory we can ask for. It would be a fitting end to the 5th Gen as you will NEVER AGAIN see an LS7 like motor in an OEM vehicle. The emissions at idle due to the cam are too high. I see EPA waivers for this project in my dreams. |
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07-11-2012, 08:52 PM | #1725 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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From what I can gather the 1LE has a cooler for the tranny, but none for the differential. That leads me to believe it is a SS differential. From memory, the retail cost of the ZL1 from hubs to shafts to differential is about $4,500 at retail for parts. If the Z/28 is a real track car, we want the best that Chevrolet has to offer.
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07-11-2012, 09:12 PM | #1726 | |
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will. Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
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Quote:
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
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07-12-2012, 01:04 PM | #1727 | |
Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 6,989
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Quote:
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07-12-2012, 01:45 PM | #1728 | |
Drives: 2023 SGM Camaro 2SS 1LE 6M Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 577
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Quote:
There is no reason to debate development costs of putting a different engine in the Camaro any further. You either understand that the days of just swapping out engines like some kind of COPO special are over and that GM is an OEM manufacturer and all vehicles they produce must meet high standards and stand behind a warranty. Don't confuse development costs of the LS7 or the Camaro independently. It means that they must be certified, packaged, durability tested and crash tested… etc. together. The costs and engineering time are probably not high in relation to what was spent on the ZL1 program but again another hurdle against the business case the car needs would need to make. Money and time was spent to bring the 1LE package to the Camaro and that was without a engine change. You can call them excuses but this is the reality facing a car like has been proposed here. Nobody at GM wanted a 3750-4100 lb Camaro but that became reality for it return and to be competitive in the marketplace. Moving forward. The Z28 brand is very strong now. And although it may be due to its absence from the lineup, GM can't just slap the moniker on any Camaro. I think we are all in agreement that it needs to be a handling fist objective to the core of the vehicle. But would it be accepted without an LS7? Even if it could out handle the BOSS 302 and hang with it on overall performance but maybe not outright straight line speed. Would it be accepted if in order to do so GM had to put tires like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup and make them an option? Would a Z28 in the 445HP range and 3900 lb curb weight be accepted? These are more realistic questions for any talk of Z28 in the 5th Gen Camaro. Although a car like this seems to be an option for the SS in 2013.
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07-12-2012, 03:31 PM | #1729 | |
Too Many Great Choices
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Quote:
Last edited by 2cnd chance; 07-12-2012 at 05:09 PM. |
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07-12-2012, 04:26 PM | #1730 | |
Drives: 2023 SGM Camaro 2SS 1LE 6M Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
If I am reading correctly it's either GM makes a Z28 proper by powering it with an LS7 or don't do one at all. Would that be an accurate assessment of main underlying point of the thread?
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07-12-2012, 04:34 PM | #1731 |
Downright Upright
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Not necessarily ONLY an LS7...but it MUST have more to it than simply a rebadged 1LE, with substantially more than 426 hp...
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07-12-2012, 05:08 PM | #1732 | |
Too Many Great Choices
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
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Quote:
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07-12-2012, 05:08 PM | #1733 |
Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 6,989
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07-12-2012, 05:47 PM | #1734 |
Drives: 1999 Blazer Join Date: May 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
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KarFan, the long and short of it is we have discussed this intently for over three years, we have cried, moaned, begged, pleaded, we have looked at what would be acceptable and what would not be, we have looked at what fits the heritage of the Z/28 and what does not, we have looked at the business case in terms of praticality and profit, I don't think there is much of anything we have ignored or overlooked in the years of discussions here in the Z/28 forum. I don't think there has been any information in any of your posts here that has not already been looked at in one form or another. I think the people that post here on a regular basis and follow all of the Z/28 threads are probably one of the most informed groups of posters on Camaro 5. While I appreciate your insight and input (as I'm sure most others here do), I think we're at the point we need some insight that has not been brought up here, don't know where it would come from cause I'm sure we have covered almost all known info and data.
Clyde |
07-12-2012, 06:06 PM | #1735 |
Downright Upright
Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009
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Let's refresh some weight-to-power numbers:
BOSS LS = 3631 lb/444 hp = 8.18 lb/hp 1LE = 3920 lb/426 hp = 9.20 lb/hp (Dual Mode may free up 5-10 additional hp; if 436, then 9.00 lb/hp) ZEE = 3920 lb/480 hp = 8.17 lb/hp; 3920/505 (LS7) = 7.76 lb/hp Therefore, forgetting gear ratios 'n tires sizes and all other factors, a Gen-5 ZEE needs 480+ hp to be where it needs to be...and where WE WANT IT TO BE... That doesn't leave many certified/validated engine options. |
07-12-2012, 06:35 PM | #1736 | |
Drives: 2023 SGM Camaro 2SS 1LE 6M Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 577
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Quote:
The Gen V V8 is a very interesting opportunity not only for a Camaro model like Z28 but for Camaro period. The timing of introduction in the C7 does make for a very interesting option for the end of the 5th Gen Camaro product run. Unlike the LS7 it will be a mass produced replacement for the Gen IV engines so production and certification costs would be spread across the Camaro line. When coupled with the expected fuel economy and power increase over the Gen IV engines now the business case gets a lot better. The only sticking point would be if GM wants to take resources by then from the impending 6th Gen development to put the Gen V V8 into the last one or two model years of the 5th Gen Camaro. GM could use the engine change in 2014-15 to introduce a Z28 model to keep interest in the car at the end of its product cycle.
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700 hp z/28 in 2014, the greatest camaro |
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