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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 09-03-2012, 06:04 PM   #2026
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Honestly I think the SS should get dropped for the 6th gen. Have a base V8 with a N/A small displacement, Z/28 with a N/A larger displacement and ZL1 with S/C large displacement. Calling the base V8 the SS was just as bad as calling it the Z/28.
I don't really see a problem with the base V8 being the SS, especially given that the number of V8 choices is not that widespread. In the first gen it would have been illogical as there were 327/210hp, 327/275hp (both of which were replaced in '69 by other low hp engines) and then the base SS of 350/295hp (300hp in '69), SS396 in 325, 350, and 375hp versions and the Z/28. Let's face it, the number of engine choices are down in this day and age, I think that's why it sometimes happens that a version like the SS would be the base V8.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:32 PM   #2027
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Uhhhh yeah, maybe a performance upgrade for the ZL1 would be the LS9..who thinks this stuff up? It's a given, all along the hopefuls, the Z/28 has to be naturally aspirated, and to answer the question Bhobbs, the 13k difference comes into play because everyone keeps whining that they want the LS7 in the car instead of holding GM down and making them give us an engine with some tech in it and R&D with 480-500 hp without needing 7.0 liters to do it in!!
I'd rather they use 7L to get 500 hp than wind out a small displacement engine to hit the same peak hp value

Why do you feel otherwise?
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:24 PM   #2028
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Guys, I don't mind the LS7 thought of use, I just keep saying that I guess I am jealous that the Camaro gets the left overs it seems. Would an LS7 powered Camaro be amazing? Easy answer, yes! Why does the Corvette get all the fun? Why should we have to wait for the Corvette to be done using an engine so us Z/28 hopefuls get a slice of the pie? My other question has been, why can other auto makers squeeze out comparable HP with 5 liters to our 6.2L or 7L with only 5? If the reason GM decides not to do a 5th Gen Z/28 I will be really disappointed..if it is cost of the LS7 that doesn't make the car marketable in their eyes, then I say do without, but give me a motor in its place with some new tech that is spread out over many other lines and regular production and let it have at least 475HP NA!
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:30 PM   #2029
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Look at the glass half full...we get the Corvette engine(s) in the Camaro!
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:28 AM   #2030
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I'd rather they use 7L to get 500 hp than wind out a small displacement engine to hit the same peak hp value

Why do you feel otherwise?
For me, it's a matter of going all the way back to the Z/28's origins. The original Z/28 was all about doing more with less. Never mind the low end and lower midrange sacrifices. That was part of the appeal - it wasn't intended to be grocery-getter easy to drive and you'd have to drive it a little harder most of the time. To fully appreciate it long-term, you had to be an enthusiast, not a just-wanna-look-like-one.

As far as I'm concerned, the character of the Z/28 softened a little when SCCA allowed the manufacturers to derive their 5.0 liters from engines of larger displacement and Chevy went straight to the 350 for production. Sure, it was a better daily driver and arguably more flexible out on the track that way. But it wasn't the same.


Could a confluence between the Z/28's original makeup and the upcoming CAFE pressures possibly happen???


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Old 09-04-2012, 08:32 AM   #2031
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Gen-1 Z/28s Curbed at roughly 3200 lb. A Gen-5 1LE Curbs at 3920. To motivate that extra 700 lb requires TORQUE...which you simply get as a natural by-product of extra displacement, since homolagation rules are not in play. You can achieve more torque, as well, with boost, but that's a recipe owned by the ZL1...

Unless GM plans on preparing a ZEE-only engine for MY '14-'15 (unlikely), the ready-to-go, OEM-validated choices for more-than-LS3 power are few: LS7...or "LT1", due within 12 months...

For Gen-6 Camaros, should they reduce in size/weight to roughly current Mustang dimensions (and use of the Alpha platform would suggest such will be the case), less weight will allow less power to move it at an equivalent-to-Gen-5 pace. Increased mpgs, as per CAFE '16, will be a welcomed and necessary benefit...

As to SCCA's change for MY '70, it was predicated to include Chrysler factory participation. Mopar's small block of the day bottomed out at 318, and the previous 273 was simply weak sauce amongst Chev and Ford artillery (anyone remember the '66 D-Dart?).

But I agree, Norm, things then definitely changed for smaller V8s. But "times", too, were changing as cars were growing bigger/heavier, and emissions were sapping power... Funny how we're about to see a reversal of this as we prepare for CAFE '16...
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:00 AM   #2032
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Question, what will become of the LS7 if it is not used next year in the Camaro?
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:36 AM   #2033
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Guys, I don't mind the LS7 thought of use, I just keep saying that I guess I am jealous that the Camaro gets the left overs it seems. Would an LS7 powered Camaro be amazing? Easy answer, yes! Why does the Corvette get all the fun? Why should we have to wait for the Corvette to be done using an engine so us Z/28 hopefuls get a slice of the pie? My other question has been, why can other auto makers squeeze out comparable HP with 5 liters to our 6.2L or 7L with only 5? If the reason GM decides not to do a 5th Gen Z/28 I will be really disappointed..if it is cost of the LS7 that doesn't make the car marketable in their eyes, then I say do without, but give me a motor in its place with some new tech that is spread out over many other lines and regular production and let it have at least 475HP NA!
Because the Corvette is the top of the food chain. It will always get the major improvements before anything else.

For N/A torque, 7l is > 5l.

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Question, what will become of the LS7 if it is not used next year in the Camaro?
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:52 PM   #2034
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Question, what will become of the LS7 if it is not used next year in the Camaro?
The last one built will go to the Heritage Center...

What is hand-assembled @ Wixom (LS7-LS9-dry LS3) is exclusive to C6 Corvette...up to this point...so the real question is: What will happen to Wixom PBC?
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:10 PM   #2035
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The last one built will go to the Heritage Center...

What is hand-assembled @ Wixom (LS7-LS9-dry LS3) is exclusive to C6 Corvette...up to this point...so the real question is: What will happen to Wixom PBC?
They will probably start building the C7 Vette engines.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:53 PM   #2036
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Say GM does build a Z28 for the last hurrah of the 5th gen to pave the way for the 6th gen. Say it does get the LS7 and the other described upgrades in this thread.

Where does it fit in the current camaro lineup. Inbetween 1LE and ZL1?
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:57 PM   #2037
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Say GM does build a Z28 for the last hurrah of the 5th gen to pave the way for the 6th gen. Say it does get the LS7 and the other described upgrades in this thread.

Where does it fit in the current camaro lineup. In between 1LE and ZL1?
For my use, the LS7 Z/28 would be the Top Dog.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:07 PM   #2038
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Say GM does build a Z28 for the last hurrah of the 5th gen to pave the way for the 6th gen. Say it does get the LS7 and the other described upgrades in this thread.

Where does it fit in the current camaro lineup. Inbetween 1LE and ZL1?
Yes, GM has already said the ZL1 is the Top Camaro. For I and others (including Pete) the Z28 is tops. We're not looking for a fully loaded supercharged GT. We want a 21st century car that follows in the footsteps of the original purpose-built 1Gen Z28.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:23 PM   #2039
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Say GM does build a Z28 for the last hurrah of the 5th gen to pave the way for the 6th gen. Say it does get the LS7 and the other described upgrades in this thread.

Where does it fit in the current camaro lineup. Inbetween 1LE and ZL1?
Since I don't currently own either of those, it would easily fit in my garage...which is the ONLY place I'm concerned about...

1LE = BOSS

ZL1 = Top Dog GT

LS7'd ZEE = alarming news for the current BOSS LS and just about any other n/a OEM 4-seater on a race track...
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:16 PM   #2040
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Since I don't currently own either of those, it would easily fit in my garage...which is the ONLY place I'm concerned about...

1LE = BOSS

ZL1 = Top Dog GT

LS7'd ZEE = alarming news for the current BOSS LS and just about any other n/a OEM 4-seater on a race track...
And we have a winner! You've expressed very well the way I feel about it (better than I could).
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:19 PM   #2041
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Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
Say GM does build a Z28 for the last hurrah of the 5th gen to pave the way for the 6th gen. Say it does get the LS7 and the other described upgrades in this thread.

Where does it fit in the current camaro lineup. Inbetween 1LE and ZL1?
I would say the 1LE is the precursor to the Z/28.

The Z/28 would fit in the lineup in the same way the Z06 fits for the Corvette lineup.

ZL1=ZR1
Z/28=Z06
SS=Grand Sport

I for one think the current SS moniker is applicable to the performance of the cars.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:21 PM   #2042
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I would say the 1LE is the precursor to the Z/28.

The Z/28 would fit in the lineup in the same way the Z06 fits for the Corvette lineup.

ZL1=ZR1
Z/28=Z06
SS=Grand Sport

I for one think the current SS moniker is applicable to the performance of the cars.
It's more appropriate to say

ZL1 = ZR1
Z/28 = Z06
1LE = Grand Sport
SS = Base Vette
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:24 PM   #2043
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I would say the 1LE is the precursor to the Z/28.

The Z/28 would fit in the lineup in the same way the Z06 fits for the Corvette lineup.

ZL1=ZR1
Z/28=Z06
SS=Grand Sport

I for one think the current SS moniker is applicable to the performance of the cars.
That makes sense
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:46 PM   #2044
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It's more appropriate to say

ZL1 = ZR1
Z/28 = Z06
1LE = Grand Sport
SS = Base Vette
I agree.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:30 PM   #2045
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I agree.
...as well as I. Good analogy there Bhobbs...
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:22 PM   #2046
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Quote:
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It's more appropriate to say

ZL1 = ZR1
Z/28 = Z06
1LE = Grand Sport
SS = Base Vette
thats more or less how I equate things
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:07 PM   #2047
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I would say the 1LE is the precursor to the Z/28.
I have felt the same way for sometime now. It's a tweener, heading towards....? All roads lead somewhere, where is the 1LE heading? Z/28 land...perhaps. Check it's "ingredients" per se. It's a carefully blended performance hybrid SS with just the right blend of all off the shelf ingredients and a pinch of customized spice specifically designed for track consumption. Just read Joe's write up on it. It's stout and light <as compared to it's big brother ZL1>, square on the right wheels and rubber, enhanced in damper, sway bay, and suspension. It's as light as it's gonna get in the 5th gen trim. And that 3.91 with the gearbox ratio makes it quicker in acceleration. LS3 426 HP is nice, but a LS7 505 HP would make the car a true Z/28....no doubt about it. If they build it tomorrow, in the current 1LE platform as is, with a LS7, I will sell my ZL1. There are no majic bullets, no new LS motors coming. Precursor, forerunner? I can certainly see that happening. The price could come in under 50K. Lowdown has presented many times before it possibly could be done the 47K range I believe. And I think it would be suitable for any of us, even the most diehard of the 6 OG Z guys this would be what we could live with, and want to buy.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:41 PM   #2048
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I have felt the same way for sometime now. It's a tweener, heading towards....? All roads lead somewhere, where is the 1LE heading? Z/28 land...perhaps. Check it's "ingredients" per se. It's a carefully blended performance hybrid SS with just the right blend of all off the shelf ingredients and a pinch of customized spice specifically designed for track consumption. Just read Joe's write up on it. It's stout and light <as compared to it's big brother ZL1>, square on the right wheels and rubber, enhanced in damper, sway bay, and suspension. It's as light as it's gonna get in the 5th gen trim. And that 3.91 with the gearbox ratio makes it quicker in acceleration. LS3 426 HP is nice, but a LS7 505 HP would make the car a true Z/28....no doubt about it. If they build it tomorrow, in the current 1LE platform as is, with a LS7, I will sell my ZL1. There are no majic bullets, no new LS motors coming. Precursor, forerunner? I can certainly see that happening. The price could come in under 50K. Lowdown has presented many times before it possibly could be done the 47K range I believe. And I think it would be suitable for any of us, even the most diehard of the 6 OG Z guys this would be what we could live with, and want to buy.
1LE with an LS7? Yep, I could go for that in a heartbeat!!
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:50 PM   #2049
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I agree.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:03 PM   #2050
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...GM..we got three orders....can we start now.....please?
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