Do NOT drive with summer tires when raining

[Norm Peterson]

Red, if you can believe this, my opinion of BFG's KDWS all-seasons in the rain is lower than your opinion of PZero summer tires in the rain. I've had at least three different sets of max-performance summer tires that gave up less performance in the winter than the KDWS's gave up in the wet at any time or temperature. Even the Falken Azenis RT615 autocross-intended tires with their ABSOLUTELY-FREAKING-HUGE TREAD BLOCKS were better. Honest.


Norm

[ChrisBlair]

The fact is that if not every SS with these tires displays this issue, then the issue is not the equipment. It is a percentage of drivers that experience these issues. Blaming it on the tires...nobody wants to hear or learn they did something wrong. But we must also be realistic. Many drivers do not understand what a RWD car is telling them anymore. I cannot accept that this is the fault of the P-Zeroes at all. Why? Because I don't have this problem, and I bet you'd agree, I am not a world class driver with skills that tame the mighty, slippery beast called a Camaro SS. Today we think the car's always gonna save us. We ignore warning signs in every car, not just a Camaro, becasuse we don't get bit 99.99% of the time. And then once in a while, we do get bit.

I am glad OP is OK and all that happened was a damaged car. Worse things happen. However, this was unfortunately a case of driver error in some form.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Splitter

Wet, dry, rain, light snow, stock P Zeros, 20k miles on them, no issues..

Slow down.

Originally Posted by two_wheel_mayhem

I live on the edge, P zeros in the rain with traction control off.

Seriously, I avoid driving the Camaro in the rain, it's no fun. If you are having fun then you will be complaining you wrecked your car and blaming it on your tires.

Not gonna lie,

A V6 with all the nannies off in the rain is VERY fun. Highway driving + rain on the other hand, is not fun.

It has just enough power to be fun while not wrapping you around a pole as quickly as an SS+ would.

[ChrisBlair]

...the torque in an SS is a mild joke.

I said it. There.

[PurgeSS]

Originally Posted by DP Valentino

I had no issues in my Comp2's when it rains here in California. Which is rare, but when it does I corner and grip well.

It's been raining a lot lately, last week I gave it a lil gas out of 2nd gear and my back came out a bit, my 305s in the back don't play well with wet pavement.

[PurgeSS]

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

The fact is that if not every SS with these tires displays this issue, then the issue is not the equipment. It is a percentage of drivers that experience these issues. Blaming it on the tires...nobody wants to hear or learn they did something wrong. But we must also be realistic. Many drivers do not understand what a RWD car is telling them anymore. I cannot accept that this is the fault of the P-Zeroes at all. Why? Because I don't have this problem, and I bet you'd agree, I am not a world class driver with skills that tame the mighty, slippery beast called a Camaro SS. Today we think the car's always gonna save us. We ignore warning signs in every car, not just a Camaro, becasuse we don't get bit 99.99% of the time. And then once in a while, we do get bit.

I am glad OP is OK and all that happened was a damaged car. Worse things happen. However, this was unfortunately a case of driver error in some form.

This. Well put.
But glad you are okay and in good health OP!

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

...the torque in an SS is a mild joke.

I said it. There.

[Software Guy]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

I have driven dozens of cars with summer tires in the rain with zero issues. My advice is to adjust your driving style to the road conditions. Not saying it was what was going on in your case, but too many people drive exactly the same in the rain as they do when it is dry, which is a recipe for disaster. Sorry about your car, but glad you're okay.

My thoughts exactly.

[pickwithaustin]

Originally Posted by jimlem

WTF?? Where did you get that from? Just pulled it out of your ass? So, you can sound like one of the cool kids? Crawl back into your dumpster. How is it the one homeless guy has a great internet connection?

OP, glad you're ok. Don't listen to all the negative F**ks on here.

I'm glad to see you're not only just hateful of me when I post. You're an equal opportunity hater.
How'd life? LOL

[Red2014SS]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Red, if you can believe this, my opinion of BFG's KDWS all-seasons in the rain is lower than your opinion of PZero summer tires in the rain. I've had at least three different sets of max-performance summer tires that gave up less performance in the winter than the KDWS's gave up in the wet at any time or temperature. Even the Falken Azenis RT615 autocross-intended tires with their ABSOLUTELY-FREAKING-HUGE TREAD BLOCKS were better. Honest.


Norm

I trust your opinion, and I'll probably go with Michelin PSS (because of you) the next time I need tires. It sounds like you've been satisfied with those. I like my current Toyo Proxes, but performance wise, they are limited. I actually don't hate the P-Zeros. I just think it was a bone-headed move on the part of Chevy to make summer tires standard equipment on any street car sold in the USA (ZL1 and Z28 not included). Let me explain why..

I'm a realist to the core. To guys on this forum, performance is all that matters. In that regard, they love the P-Zero and I can understand that. To the other 99% of car buyers, performance comes second to things like safety and everyday usefulness. In most areas of the USA, there aren't that many 50+ degree, sunny days throughout the year. That means, for the majority of the time, the P-Zero is a poor performer for the given road conditions.

Yeah, I know.. everyone should take driving lessons, or slow down, or leave the car parked, or buy different tires, or buy a Prius, or walk. There are a zillion excuses. But the facts are, most people won't. The Camaro is not a Lambo, a Porsche, or even a Corvette. Most of them sold, are purchased by everyday working people who intend to drive them year round. Puddles happen, and if your Chevy Aveo can handle it at speed, so should your new Camaro.

The result is, accidents occur and the car gets blamed. This forum represents an extremely tiny slice of total Camaro ownership, yet even here, we see it. And those thousands we don't see - they tell their friends, neighbors, etc, about how the Chevy Camaro is dangerous in the rain, cold weather or light snow. I don't really blame them. They bought the car because it looks cool and it's made well. They will never drive it on a racetrack. They have no use for a specialized summer tire. They may not even know they have summer tires. Car salesmen don't seem to mention it.. even if the sale occurs in North Dakota.. in January.

I don't hate the P-Zeros. I just think they should have been an option instead of standard equipment. That would have satisfied most buyers, given salesman an actual reason to learn about the tires, and the car magazines could still print rave reviews about the Camaro's handling on the track.

[gajagfan]

Red, summer tires or not, a big part of why the Aveo gets through the puddle with no problems and the Camaro floats a bit is tire size. I know you know this, but felt the need to point it out. Big wide tires, summer only or not, are gonna float or hydroplane before skinny ones are.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Red2014SS

I trust your opinion, and I'll probably go with Michelin PSS (because of you) the next time I need tires. It sounds like you've been satisfied with those. I like my current Toyo Proxes, but performance wise, they are limited. I actually don't hate the P-Zeros. I just think it was a bone-headed move on the part of Chevy to make summer tires standard equipment on any street car sold in the USA (ZL1 and Z28 not included). Let me explain why..

I'm a realist to the core. To guys on this forum, performance is all that matters. In that regard, they love the P-Zero and I can understand that. To the other 99% of car buyers, performance comes second to things like safety and everyday usefulness. In most areas of the USA, there aren't that many 50+ degree, sunny days throughout the year. That means, for the majority of the time, the P-Zero is a poor performer for the given road conditions.

Yeah, I know.. everyone should take driving lessons, or slow down, or leave the car parked, or buy different tires, or buy a Prius, or walk. There are a zillion excuses. But the facts are, most people won't. The Camaro is not a Lambo, a Porsche, or even a Corvette. Most of them sold, are purchased by everyday working people who intend to drive them year round. Puddles happen, and if your Chevy Aveo can handle it at speed, so should your new Camaro.

The result is, accidents occur and the car gets blamed. This forum represents an extremely tiny slice of total Camaro ownership, yet even here, we see it. And those thousands we don't see - they tell their friends, neighbors, etc, about how the Chevy Camaro is dangerous in the rain, cold weather or light snow. I don't really blame them. They bought the car because it looks cool and it's made well. They will never drive it on a racetrack. They have no use for a specialized summer tire. They may not even know they have summer tires. Car salesmen don't seem to mention it.. even if the sale occurs in North Dakota.. in January.

I don't hate the P-Zeros. I just think they should have been an option instead of standard equipment. That would have satisfied most buyers, given salesman an actual reason to learn about the tires, and the car magazines could still print rave reviews about the Camaro's handling on the track.

Thanks, Red. I do see your point that even for the RS packages there could have been a no-cost or minimal-cost choice between the PZeros and just about anything with better wet weather performance. Even a better summer tire to begin with should have been an obvious choice. The PSS has been around since early to mid 2011, so that could have made it to the 2012's . . .

Yes, I have had very good experiences with the PSS in the wet. In fact, my wife and I drove down to Wilmington NC just this past weekend into the teeth of storm Ana, and I was damn glad I'd swapped the PSS I'd just bought for her car (Subaru Legacy 2.5GT) onto that car's 3-season wheels.

Here's a session from that wet track day I mentioned earlier. Camera shake at 12:15 or so corresponds to 110, up to about 115 mph . . .




Norm

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by Splitter

Very easy to defend. The LS3 doesn't make peak torque until 4600 rpm, and at 3300 rpm you're only making about 375 lb/ft, in a 4K pound car. 4K to 5500 is a sweet spot, but that's the upper half of the rev range. We don't "live" there. We "live" 1000 rpm lower. A 6.2L V8 should make some better low-end torque especially for a heavy car, but we make about 350 lb/ft at 2000 rpm. mate that with the lousy throttle response at low revs too and its a borderline dog unless we keep it on the cam.

This is why the 3.91:1 rear gear ratio is so attractive. It has the effect of a 13% increase in torque due to the mechanical advantage over the stock gear.

[Vroom_vroom]

why are there so many blanket statements about summer tires? pending on where you live yes you may need a second set of tires or a different one all together. my summer tires (bfg sport comps) are one of the best tires i have ran in the rain. every one gets all worked up when someone neglects to recognize the camaros for the performance machines they are but they should come with a all season the same as the rest?

performance car+performance tire=results

not to discont the op's situation it sucks and i hope evrything works out ok for him but you can hydro plain any tire.