04-19-2013, 12:57 PM | #141 |
Can't stop ***ifying
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It has been done over and over again on zl1, just 6000 in parts nets you 200 more reliable wheel HP (700 + wheels HP and toque). Gm should have sold this Zl this way so it would be a gt5 stomper in stock form.
As far a name profiting, totally. They should have had the wheels brakes tires seats and window as a z0-whatever package for the zl1. Finish off the track car you started gm, instead of having two cars that only kind of are complete. The z06 and zr1 lines make sense. There is a progression between the two. They made the Z06 a track perfection and then added a blower and better brakes to make the ZR1. Gm kinda got it backward on the camaros. Just shows how much the z28 is a name profit afterthought and wasnt a planned car. All those z28 parts would have been a easy market as a z28 package to upgrade the zl1. Well, I guess they still are, we just have to buy them individually.
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Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp |
04-19-2013, 01:08 PM | #142 | |
Drives: 2011 2ss/rs Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Nurburgring
Posts: 104
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also, the z/28 is for track only guys. if you were one, you'd know that we generally like n/a motors with more CI over f/i. better curves, and more reliability. also, the z/28s shocks were adapted from formula 1. if mag-ride is the end all, be all for road racing, than why aren't f1 cars using it? I'm really trying to help you understand this without coming off as a dick lol. the zl1 simply wont be as fast as the z/28 around the ring. do you really think GM would even advertise the z/28 like they did if it had a slower time than the zl1? they are charging MORE for a car with LESS creature comforts to serve its purpose as a factory TRACK car, but this "track car" is slower around the ring than the less expensive more comfortable zl1? what??! that would be down right embarrassing! and GM is definitely smarter than that. we are also comparing stock to stock. no switching tires. the whole package deal... the trofeo R's are just another part of what makes the z/28 so awesome. you really seem VERY confident that the z/28 wont be as fast as its little brother zl1 (yes i said "little". even GM said the z/28 is the new top dog.) when the lap times are published, i will be VERY tempted to quote all of your posts and put a bunch of these guys . I realize i've made a lot of claims here.. and if you are right, and i am wrong please do quote this exact post and do the same lol. cuz i will gladly eat my words, and shake my head in shame of what GM has done with the z/28.. until then...
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04-19-2013, 01:12 PM | #143 | |
Dances With Mustangs
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Do you see a lot of expensive BMW's and Porsches at the drags? Once a certain price point is reached it becomes a much more purposeful purchase; especially with a car that's been weight-reduced from the factory for the track. Chevy has a Camaro for the serious drag racer; it's the COPO. For the guy who wants power and comfort on the street, it's the ZL1. For the serious road course racer it's going to be the Z/28. It's going to be REAL interesting to see what the 6th gen cars are like considering the big 15% weight reduction mandate now in place for the next generation of cars.
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Blue Angel is here!! 1SS/RS LS3 M6 IBM |
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04-19-2013, 01:24 PM | #144 |
Drives: 2011 2ss/rs Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Nurburgring
Posts: 104
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Or even just the SS. "serious drag racers" dont really drag race stock cars unless its to just see what their stock car is capable of. "serious drag racers" will always have a modded car. they will never keep their car stock... and for that purpose, the SS might be the best option. even better than the zl1 IMO
now for the casual racer, the ZL1 is by far the best option. note i didnt say casual "drag" racer or "road" racer. for the casual "period" racer, the ZL1 will do everything they want and then some in almost every performance aspect. for the serious drag racer => COPO or modded SS for the serious road racer => Z/28 (you can also do a modded SS or 1le here too... but i don't think it will be any cheaper than a z/28 to get it to the same level.)
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04-19-2013, 01:30 PM | #145 |
Can't stop ***ifying
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I do believe there is a chance the z28 might be faster at the ring. But I also believe the car is over hyped. Gm calls z28 top dog for marketing reasons, to justify the price. Just looking at the ring cars that are putting down 7:41 and better, I don't feel the z28 will cut it. I do realize I could be dead wrong, but I will be pleasantly surprised to be wrong. That would be a good thing. I do also understand track cars and racing. I raced sport bikes for years. That is one reason the Milford track time does not convince me that the z28 will crush the zl1 ring time. I rode 1000cc bikes, with twice the torque power of the 600's (back in my day). On a short course with no long straight, the fast 1000s couldn't shake the lighter and weaker 600s. But give the bikes just one or two 1/2 mile straights and the 1000cc just stomped the 600s. Milford has a .3 mile straight, it is all tight complex turns and hard braking. I can see the zl1 having trouble getting any power down and getting chased and passed by the z28. But the ring gives the big power cars leg room and it shows in the times that the track rewards power. If the z28 pulls this off, it will be an engineering feat by gm that will surely shock the world. That top list of cars has tons of top tier engineering, technology and materials. I hope gm pulls it off.
Until we get official numbers, all we can do is speculate. That is the fun part right now. We can't all just agree, that would be un-american! As for the stock for stock, the tires are not GMs engineering, and I believe it is fair to put apples to apples and try both cars at same track and same tires. Then the truly better engineered car will be apparent. Like I said, the zl1 has soooo much more power to put down, just give us some traction!
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Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp |
04-19-2013, 01:38 PM | #146 |
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,313
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04-19-2013, 01:48 PM | #147 | |
Can't stop ***ifying
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We know the weight. The power. The dimensions. The brakes . Not much to be surprised about. Go to the ring lap times. Find the rwd cars at the z28 power level and weight. Then be hopeful it is just faster than those cars.
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Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp |
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04-19-2013, 01:49 PM | #148 | |
Drives: 2011 2ss/rs Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Nurburgring
Posts: 104
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regarding the tires, going from michilin ps2's to sport cups, the ZR1 vette gained a second around VIR. i suspect the gains would be similar from the goodyear f1's to trofeo R the z06 weighs more than 3000 lbs
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04-19-2013, 01:58 PM | #149 | |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,028
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The COPO doesnt really count for the serious drag racer IMO, they only built 69 of them for 2012, and its not street legal. I think some of these other people here just wanted the LS7 in the camaro, that just sounds bad ass. 427 Camaro sounds pretty sweet, but I think some of those guys are mad they only way they can get it now is in the Z/28 |
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04-19-2013, 02:04 PM | #150 | |
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS SOM; 2015 Malibu LTZ Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 4,039
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However, to me it looks like one or two decisions about naming these 5th gen prototypes were made too hastily; In the case of both the zl1 and z28, it doesn't appear that we have as clear of a distinction between the models as it was with the original Z28 and ZL1. As an example; It was well known that the original ZL1 featured a 427 cu. inch big block, and was a naturally aspirated, straight-line street car (screamer), and that the Z/28 was a light weight, small block performance car that emphasized efficient power and good handling. Fast forward to 2013: We have a ZL1 with a small block, supercharged engine, and with an emphasis on handling and technology. We also now have a Z/28 with a 427 cu. in. engine (albeit also a small block), with stripped amenities and also focusing on handling. To me, both cars do not have a clear grasp on the heritage of their forebearers that made the nameplates legendary. Its my opinion, but I feel that the images of both cars would've been clearer if one car would've been dedicated as a drag strip influenced car, while the other (z/28) would have had have a stricter focus on handling and also featuring a specific derived small block engine in the 300 cu. inch range. It seems that both 5th gens are trying to do it all at once, and it remains to be seen that either car could be a dominant player in their respective performance categories.
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04-19-2013, 02:08 PM | #151 | |
Can't stop ***ifying
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As for the corner speed argument, I did address that . My racing experience show that vehicles that carried more corner speed dominated, until a more powerful(torque) vehicle got a straight or sweeper to stretch its legs.
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Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp |
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04-19-2013, 02:10 PM | #152 | |
Can't stop ***ifying
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Did you know that the ZL1 has parts on it labeled Z28. They did have it right. Then hesitated.
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Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp |
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04-19-2013, 02:12 PM | #153 | |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,028
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The 69 ZL-1 Had a hand built 427, and was a 1/4 missile, is now powered by supercharged small block and is a great track car. The Z/28 now gets the hand assembled 427 so it can be the track star. I know why they used the LS7 for the Z/28, it was the best high revving small block they had but I just find the above ironic in a humorous way lol |
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04-19-2013, 02:13 PM | #154 | |
Can't stop ***ifying
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Rotofab, grinding rear diff sound forever, dealer replaced supercharger - now i have a rattle when starting from a stop, ordered 2.35 lingenfelter pulley, hp tuner, belt, 100mm idler pulley, tr7IX spark plugs, wideband kit, long tubes with no cats...hoping for 650hp. dyno with rotofab = 518hp |
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