Will the Camaro last past 2016?

[mikelj]

Yes, Obama and his Obamamobile ideas will kill the muscle car just as surely as Jimma Carter and his disastrous ideas killed it in the '70s. We are approaching the dark ages of speed, power, and styling for cars, again, just like the '70s. It took 25 years or so to recover from those dark days to today when there are dozens of 400+ HP cars with exciting styling, like the new Camaro. Take a look at the ugly econobox Prius or Insight, that is what you will get by 2016, too many people don't care what they drive as long as it is cheap, politically correct, and trendy and gets from Point A to Point B. I am preparing to keep my older '60s musclecars indefinitely, as well as my new Camaro and MB SL55. We will not see the like of them again for a very long time. A very sad day for those who love to drive great looking, fast cars.

[dbotsfordtat]

Originally Posted by BigRigMike

I am sure everyone thought the horse and buggy would go away but I still see them everyday.

I'm guessing Amish?

[stovt001]

A few more thoughts:

Yes, it will still be possible to make performance cars, but since GM and Chrysler are now tools to the government they won't be making any. Many other manufacturers will choose not to as a cost/risk containment issue. The ones that still do will have my business.

Joe Remi, might want to rethink that Pious. Not only might they kill you:
http://www.seattleweekly.com/2009-04...erfect-prius/1

but Edmunds.com proved they make no economic sense:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=130069

They make no environmental sense either, as the production of the battery alone is brutal on the earth.

Finally, concerning the FT-HS, I'd imagine that project is dead or on the back burner wit the flame all but off. Toyota is just about as risk adverse as GM. They don't do interesting cars, and making one in this climate is totally against their way of doing things. Also, it isn't widely reported, but Toyota is really hurting for cash too and is encountering huge losses.

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

Um, I don't get the point. I'm addressing the attitude that some people wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius. It's a useful and technologically interesting car. I guess what bewilders me on various car forums is how committed people are to one type of automobile. I think Fiat 500s, Charger SRT-8s and giant CrewCab Diesel duallies are all equally interesting vehicles. It's like people who only watch NASCAR. How can you not like all kinds of racing?

Couldn't agree more.

[AZCamaroFan]

First it has to sell beyond the immediate hype.
Second it has to have a platform. I don't know how much smaller cars can really get, when you look at most of them being Malibu sized these days. I'm most curious what they're going to do with trucks. With the weight of a truck, i don't know how even a V6 is going to get 30mpg.
I am concerned with the Camaro, but more than just mpg. With hybrids, and electrics they can bring fleet average's way up. It's the platform issue that worries me with the Camaro. Possibly a shared , smaller, lighter, platform with Cadillac?

[Black5thgen]

The sky is falling, we will all be driving tin cans with two AA batterys and gas will be $40/gallon. Obama will not be president in 2016 and the economy will be back to normal. I believe that anything passed today could be repealed by 2016. The future of the Camaro is based on sales figures and the new Sigma platform as well as Direct Injection. I believe the 6th gen will be smaller, lighter and have less displacement. I could see 3300-3400lb. Sigma Camaro that it shorter and narrower and powered by a 5.3 DI V8 with 375-400 hp.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by azfan

First it has to sell beyond the immediate hype.
Second it has to have a platform. I don't know how much smaller cars can really get, when you look at most of them being Malibu sized these days. I'm most curious what they're going to do with trucks. With the weight of a truck, i don't know how even a V6 is going to get 30mpg.
I am concerned with the Camaro, but more than just mpg. With hybrids, and electrics they can bring fleet average's way up. It's the platform issue that worries me with the Camaro. Possibly a shared , smaller, lighter, platform with Cadillac?

I imagine lighter materials will get lighter weight out of similar size vehicles. Unfortunately, ever-increasing safety regulations add that weight right back on. Increasing fuel economy by itself really isn't the big problem here. Raising fuel economy while simultaneously adding mandatory safety equipment is.

As far as platforms, another poster brought up Alpha. I've been anxiously awaiting Alpha for a long time now. The 5th gen Camaro is bigger than I'd ideally like, but I'm trying to get over that due to all the other awesomeness that is the Camaro. However, Alpha is supposed to by about BMW 3-series size, which is just perfect for me. The Camaro's weight problems can be partially attributed to fitting it on a full-size sedan platform. Fitting a 6th gen onto a compact-midsize platform could significantly address the weight issue, allowing for smaller engines and ultimately improved economy. Early rumors said Pontiac might get an Alpha model to add volume to Cadillac's premium pricing, but since Pontiac is dead perhaps Chevy could still get a model. However, given GM's business situation, extreme risk aversion, and the government's takeover, I've about given up hope on seeing Alpha. I'm sure it got canceled, just like everything else that isn't an econo-box.

[slholle]

I bet they keep making them there a hot looking car.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Mattsack789

If you didn't see, Obama unveiled the new Emissions and mileage standards today. All cars must get 35+ MPG by 2016. Does this mean the death of the Camaro? Death of SUV's? Death of all American sports cars? I hope we won't end up driving Fiat 500's and electric Mini's from now on.

If I recall correctly, it actually means the FLEET has to get 35+mpg or whatever the number is.

There is wiggle room in that. Supposing the Camaro SS sells 20,000 units a year, there are 100,000 Malibu's getting 32mpg, and 100,000 Cobalts getting 33mpg+....etc, etc...Then, in 2010, you've got the Volt, which should be rated at 100mpg, and the Cruze, expected to be rated at 45mpg....there is room for Camaro, don't worry.

Besides....2016 is aways away. LOTS can happen in that time-span. I'm VERY confident there will be a 6thgen Camaro. Heck, look at the 5thgen. Despite all the hurdles it had to overcome...weight, aerodynamics, gearing, and horsepower to name a few....GM still managed to produce a volume-seller with a 29mpg rating. That's incredible. Imagine if it was designed without those 'problems'......

Originally Posted by stovt001

As far as platforms, another poster brought up Alpha. I've been anxiously awaiting Alpha for a long time now.

Last I heard...and it was through the grapevine, mind you -- Alpha was going to be a revised Zeta platform. The development of which would be undertaken by Holden, again and ready by the end of this decade.
It's supposed to be lighter, smaller, but maintain all the modular capability that the Zeta platform has.

Originally Posted by stovt001

The Camaro's weight problems can be partially attributed to fitting it on a full-size sedan platform.

That's part of it. You don't base your coupe off a 5-series fighter and intend to weigh in at 3-series territory (even though it does...). It could also be attributed to the platform being designed to accept a 426hp V8 being stuffed into it...that takes an surprising amount of structural strength. Ever notice how the Genesis coupe, for example, dropped a few hundred pounds when they adapted the platform for a coupe without the V8 parameter of the original Genesis?

Originally Posted by stovt001

Fitting a 6th gen onto a compact-midsize platform could significantly address the weight issue, allowing for smaller engines and ultimately improved economy. Early rumors said Pontiac might get an Alpha model to add volume to Cadillac's premium pricing, but since Pontiac is dead perhaps Chevy could still get a model. However, given GM's business situation, extreme risk aversion, and the government's takeover, I've about given up hope on seeing Alpha. I'm sure it got canceled, just like everything else that isn't an econo-box.

Don't give up hope on it....Besides the fact that the gov't hasn't acutally taken over....there's plenty that could happen in the next 5-10 years. As quickly as they kill a program, they can pick it back up again. That's why they officially call it "shelving" something. So long as demand is there for a sporty, RWD car - Alpha will be produced. If there isn't, you can't blame them for not persuing the program......


....but I think there will always be a demand for such a product.

[JMAN311]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

If I recall correctly, it actually means the FLEET has to get 35+mpg or whatever the number is.

There is wiggle room in that. Supposing the Camaro SS sells 20,000 units a year, there are 100,000 Malibu's getting 32mpg, and 100,000 Cobalts getting 33mpg+....etc, etc...Then, in 2010, you've got the Volt, which should be rated at 100mpg, and the Cruze, expected to be rated at 45mpg....there is room for Camaro, don't worry.

Besides....2016 is aways away. LOTS can happen in that time-span.

I'd have to second that first part. This sounds very similar to what my brother was telling me in regards to Fords. Something about all the lineups as a whole needing to meet a monthly or yearly total. It can sometimes make them kind of have to restrict how many of a certain engine/model they are allowed to produce/sell so it will all balance out.

Also, wasn't there some speculation at one time about how they are going to allow GM to rate the Volt? Like maybe they wouldn't let it be rated at the 100mpg that they wanted?

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Last I heard...and it was through the grapevine, mind you -- Alpha was going to be a revised Zeta platform. The development of which would be undertaken by Holden, again and ready by the end of this decade.
It's supposed to be lighter, smaller, but maintain all the modular capability that the Zeta platform has.


That's part of it. You don't base your coupe off a 5-series fighter and intend to weigh in at 3-series territory (even though it does...). It could also be attributed to the platform being designed to accept a 426hp V8 being stuffed into it...that takes an surprising amount of structural strength. Ever notice how the Genesis coupe, for example, dropped a few hundred pounds when they adapted the platform for a coupe without the V8 parameter of the original Genesis?


Don't give up hope on it....Besides the fact that the gov't hasn't acutally taken over....there's plenty that could happen in the next 5-10 years. As quickly as they kill a program, they can pick it back up again. That's why they officially call it "shelving" something. So long as demand is there for a sporty, RWD car - Alpha will be produced. If there isn't, you can't blame them for not persuing the program......


....but I think there will always be a demand for such a product.

If Holden is involved, it will come out just fine as long as GM goes for it. Those guys know how to do RWD right. Now with a few years development, I think we can see some impressive things with light weight and high strength materials, allowing for decently high horsepower (maybe not 426, but not Mustang II either) and significantly lower weight. We've squeezed a lot of efficiency out of the internal combustion gasoline engine over the past century. Perhaps weight is the next frontier.

If alpha does happen, I would bet good money that the 6th gen would be built on it. That would take the Camaro back to its roots a bit more, as the original pony cars were relatively small for the time.

And I hate to debate this topic, but the government will indeed own GM:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...ptcy-plan.html

I think the URL tells the story there. GM will officially be Government Motors, owned and operated by the federal government. The story does state the government could then turn the company over to the UAW, which helped put this government in place to begin with.

[FirstLSK]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

Um, I don't get the point. I'm addressing the attitude that some people wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius. It's a useful and technologically interesting car. I guess what bewilders me on various car forums is how committed people are to one type of automobile. I think Fiat 500s, Charger SRT-8s and giant CrewCab Diesel duallies are all equally interesting vehicles. It's like people who only watch NASCAR. How can you not like all kinds of racing?

Granted that it is an immature statement, but personally, I think the Prius needs to replace the scooter in the infamous analogy – Fat chicks are like a Prius…. They may be “interesting” to drive but you wouldn’t want to be seen doing it.

If the key word is "interesting" then I agree. I am not committed to one type of automobile at all but it is "interesting" that someone can look at a new Camaro and then look at a Prius and have similar appreciation. In my honest opinion, the Prius is the hands-down ugliest car that any auto manufacturer has ever made. It is "interesting", to say the least, that someone can step back, look at this car and think "oh yeah, that is my new pride and joy".




To the OP – nobody knows for sure, but I have to say that the Obamelosi empire has an all too familiar feel of the late 70’s and 80’s.


.

[manimsoblack]

k so i got six years to bag a good one...

[blinkme323]

Originally Posted by stovt001

If Holden is involved, it will come out just fine as long as GM goes for it. Those guys know how to do RWD right. Now with a few years development, I think we can see some impressive things with light weight and high strength materials, allowing for decently high horsepower (maybe not 426, but not Mustang II either) and significantly lower weight. We've squeezed a lot of efficiency out of the internal combustion gasoline engine over the past century. Perhaps weight is the next frontier.

If alpha does happen, I would bet good money that the 6th gen would be built on it. That would take the Camaro back to its roots a bit more, as the original pony cars were relatively small for the time.

And I hate to debate this topic, but the government will indeed own GM:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...ptcy-plan.html


I think the URL tells the story there. GM will officially be Government Motors, owned and operated by the federal government. The story does state the government could then turn the company over to the UAW, which helped put this government in place to begin with.

Unfortunately, I don't think it will. I definitely hope it does though.

If you watch the motor trend video review of the Camaro and the Genesis Coupe, they don't think it will either. I believe they say something to the effect of "The Genesis is the sports car of the future, while the Camaro is part of a dying breed". That's not verbatim, but you get the gist of it.