YOU MUST READ!!!! - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

AirGoya · 08-01-2007, 11:22 AM

Ive posted this before but only a few read it. This is a great article called Why America Should Care About Detroit. I know most on this forum are already american buyers but those who are not I hope this article will convince them.

Okay, this might be a bit of a stretch, but for a moment let's just suppose GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler have figured out exactly what they needed to do to get out of trouble. Would Motown's glory days be back? Nope. Here's why: America doesn't really care whether it has an auto industry any more.

Let's start at the top, shall we. It took George Bush almost six years to get around to meeting the three Detroit CEOs. Sure, the President is a busy man. But even last year's American Idol contestants got face time in the Oval Office before the guys who run businesses that directly employ hundreds of thousands of Americans, indirectly benefit millions more, and generate billions of dollars worth of economic activity every year.

America's auto industry ain't much of a priority over on Capitol Hill, either. The Washington-mandated CAFE rules simply transformed Detroit's automakers into truckmakers as they exploited loopholes to meet the demands of consumers enjoying cheap gas. The cheap gas bubble has burst, never to return, leaving Detroit tooled up to build precisely the wrong kind of products for a carbon-constrained world, but no politician talks about finding ways to get out of that mess.

Back in the 50s and 60s, you'd find the masters of the universe on Woodward Avenue, not Wall Street. Detroit used to attract some of America's best and brightest, but to today's college kids manufacturing is, like, so yesterday. In 2001 only seven percent of all bachelor degrees in the U.S. were in engineering, compared with 18-20 percent in countries such as Germany, Italy and Japan. By 2010 China is expected to be awarding more engineering doctorates than we are. You won't be surprised to learn we produce more lawyers than any other country.

Manufacturing - led by automaking - used to be the engine room of the American economy. Back in 1950 manufacturing accounted for nearly one-third of the U.S. gross domestic product (GDP), the term economists give for the total market value of all goods and services produced by a country. By 2003, however, manufacturing had slumped to just 12.7 percent of GDP, leaving it a distant second to the financial services sector, which accounted for 20.4 percent.

In other words, the main business of America now is simply moving money around rather than actually making stuff. Does that matter? You bet.

America needs a vibrant, viable auto industry, because if you know how to make a car (still the most complex and costly mass-produced item in the world) you know how to make a lot of other stuff - everything from air conditioners to aircraft carriers. It's one of the reasons newly industrialized nations race to establish an auto industry of their own, even though the costs are huge and there are already too many auto factories making too many cars. Just look at what China is doing.

What Germany is doing is more relevant to the U.S., though. According to estimates in the CIA World Factbook, the world's largest exporter in 2006 was Germany, with exports totaling $1.133 trillion. That was $109 billion more than we managed, even though we have almost four times the population. Most of Germany's exports were manufactured goods. Stuff made by Germans in Germany, including a lot of Mercedes-Benzes and BMWs, Audis and VWs.

Of course, the total value of Germany's exports will soon be swamped by those of third placed China, a country with more than 10 times the number of people and a rapidly expanding industrial base built on cheap labor costs. But the real point is Germany's export earnings (worth about $13,800 per citizen, four times more than the U.S. figure) come from a country with wages, benefits and production costs as high, or higher, than those right here.

So why can Germany do what we can't do? Because in Germany, making stuff is still important.

Some economists will argue that America is moving towards a post-industrial age; that we don't have to make stuff because we can simply buy everything we need from the profits generated by the finance-driven economy. (For the record, Germany's 2006 exports were worth $217 billion more than its imports, while U.S. exports were worth $845 billion less than imports. We're sure buying a lot of stuff.)

Maybe those economists ought to read a little history, because three other countries - Spain, Holland and Britain - all once dominated the global business of moving money around like America does now, and subsequently slipped into decline when they forgot the importance of making stuff themselves.

That's why America should care about its battered and bruised auto industry.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6207244/...oit/index.html

*Mr. Wyndham* · 08-01-2007, 01:14 PM

hey, I read it then, and I read it again now. One of the Truest articles I've ever had to read.

AirGoya

*TAG UR IT* · 08-01-2007, 01:57 PM

Very true and very good read!

MerF · 08-01-2007, 03:08 PM

Scary stuff, especially when I think about it, and then see an articel about my fears.

I don't like having fears confirmed one bit...but it was still a good read.

z28camaro2471 · 08-01-2007, 05:44 PM

Well written and very true. I've discussed with people in the past that manufacturing is the basis for our economic success and growth. Manufacturing actually creates wealth. Everything else just moves $ around from one person to another.

We could all do our part by purchasing American made products where possible. I know sometimes it's almost impossible, but the good news is we still can buy cars from the big three!

I just saw today that for the first time ever, the market share for the big three fell below 50%. For June or it may have been for the entire 2nd quarter, our domestic auto producers only accounted for 48.1% of the total sales in that period.

Friends don't let friends buy imports!

darthknight72 · 08-01-2007, 06:10 PM

I know I wouldnt be caught dead driving an import.To be quite honest,sometimes it makes me angry when I see all these imports running around.I think especially now there is no reason to buy an import.You can buy a domestic that is just as well built as any import.I guess what Im trying to say is buy american. Long live american muscle. :slice:

*Mindz* · 08-01-2007, 06:13 PM

I'll read it from work

AirGoya · 08-01-2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthknight72

I know I wouldnt be caught dead driving an import.To be quite honest,sometimes it makes me angry when I see all these imports running around.I think especially now there is no reason to buy an import.You can buy a domestic that is just as well built as any import.I guess what Im trying to say is buy american. Long live american muscle. :slice:

Exactly! The quality now with new cars are pretty much the same with a few exceptions like Kia. Kia has only been making cars for a lil bit. They are just rookies. So if your gonna buy a car, support America and buy American. Even better buy GM, but thats a whole other discussion. I HATE when people say "Its a honda so it will last a long time". I just wanna scream.

*Mindz* · 08-01-2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthknight72

I know I wouldnt be caught dead driving an import.To be quite honest,sometimes it makes me angry when I see all these imports running around.I think especially now there is no reason to buy an import.You can buy a domestic that is just as well built as any import.I guess what Im trying to say is buy american. Long live american muscle. :slice:

If you're forced to buy a 4 banger for economical reasons, I'd rather buy a honda or toyota or something over the chevy aveo. It just looks better.

I have not found a domestic 4 banger that I would even consider being caught alive in, let alone being caught dead in.

I would never buy a civic/integra though unless it's a stick. I like the way my DSM stays in the gear I'm in until I'm ready to downshift. VTEC can suck my nuts for everyday driving. The article was a good read, but it won't make me buy a aveo/corsica/escort/etc. from the 3

darthknight72 · 08-01-2007, 09:32 PM

Lets be honest here,when you see a new camaro sitting in a showroom somewhere,what would have to be going through your mind to go over to a toyoya dealership and get that new camry.If you cant afford a V-8,there is nothing wrong with a V-6.You'll still have a way hotter car than anything the imports can come up with.Personally Im getting the biggest V-8 that GM is willing to put in our favorite pony car.They might be our biggest rival but the mustang is still a very nice car if you wanted to go that way.C'mon guys and ladies lets show the imports that american muscle still rules the road.I really hate imports.

*TAG UR IT* · 08-01-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirGoya

Exactly! The quality now with new cars are pretty much the same with a few exceptions like Kia. Kia has only been making cars for a lil bit. They are just rookies. So if your gonna buy a car, support America and buy American. Even better buy GM, but thats a whole other discussion. I HATE when people say "Its a honda so it will last a long time". I just wanna scream.

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with KIA?

AirGoya · 08-01-2007, 11:21 PM

I knew someone with a Kia would mention something. Anyway my Grandpa used to work with a transmission company and he would go to companies and tell them what was wrong or what they needed. Kia was first starting off when my grandpa went to them he said that they had no idea what they were doing. He said he basicaly had to teach them everything all over again. So thats why. I didnt mean to offend if i did.

I got another story my my grandpa told me about Ford. When he went to Ford they presented them with a problem with the tranny. He told them they didnt have the oil mix or something right. He told them what needed to be changed but they would listen so they produced the car. My grandpa was there when all the cars came off the line and couldnt run. The transmissions wouldnt work and they had to tow the cars off and start over. He said if only he would have got a picture of the cars being towed off the line he could have made a lot of money.

Anyway I'm glad there are some people who still care about Detroit

*Mr. Wyndham* · 08-02-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirGoya

Anyway I'm glad there are some people who still care about Detroit

I DO!!!! 1000%!!

If ever there was a time when the Foreign Car companys marched into detroit to physically break our BIG Three (well maybe BIG 2

), I would be the First person to drive up to Michigan in my Camaro and help defend them

. I would fight alongside Mustang-owners and Challenger-owners alike!

Okay maybe that's a little extreme.

Is it a crime to have visions of Grandeur?

AirGoya · 08-02-2007, 09:54 AM

haha i would too. In the midst of battle I would be along side Lutz killing imports with my oversized chevy symbol. haha

Anyway you guys should definetly pass this article around the office or playground or whatever.

The link is at the end.

08-01-2007, 11:22 AM	#1
AirGoya Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago/Carbondale Posts: 815	YOU MUST READ!!!! Ive posted this before but only a few read it. This is a great article called Why America Should Care About Detroit. I know most on this forum are already american buyers but those who are not I hope this article will convince them. Okay, this might be a bit of a stretch, but for a moment let's just suppose GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler have figured out exactly what they needed to do to get out of trouble. Would Motown's glory days be back? Nope. Here's why: America doesn't really care whether it has an auto industry any more. Let's start at the top, shall we. It took George Bush almost six years to get around to meeting the three Detroit CEOs. Sure, the President is a busy man. But even last year's American Idol contestants got face time in the Oval Office before the guys who run businesses that directly employ hundreds of thousands of Americans, indirectly benefit millions more, and generate billions of dollars worth of economic activity every year. America's auto industry ain't much of a priority over on Capitol Hill, either. The Washington-mandated CAFE rules simply transformed Detroit's automakers into truckmakers as they exploited loopholes to meet the demands of consumers enjoying cheap gas. The cheap gas bubble has burst, never to return, leaving Detroit tooled up to build precisely the wrong kind of products for a carbon-constrained world, but no politician talks about finding ways to get out of that mess. Back in the 50s and 60s, you'd find the masters of the universe on Woodward Avenue, not Wall Street. Detroit used to attract some of America's best and brightest, but to today's college kids manufacturing is, like, so yesterday. In 2001 only seven percent of all bachelor degrees in the U.S. were in engineering, compared with 18-20 percent in countries such as Germany, Italy and Japan. By 2010 China is expected to be awarding more engineering doctorates than we are. You won't be surprised to learn we produce more lawyers than any other country. Manufacturing - led by automaking - used to be the engine room of the American economy. Back in 1950 manufacturing accounted for nearly one-third of the U.S. gross domestic product (GDP), the term economists give for the total market value of all goods and services produced by a country. By 2003, however, manufacturing had slumped to just 12.7 percent of GDP, leaving it a distant second to the financial services sector, which accounted for 20.4 percent. In other words, the main business of America now is simply moving money around rather than actually making stuff. Does that matter? You bet. America needs a vibrant, viable auto industry, because if you know how to make a car (still the most complex and costly mass-produced item in the world) you know how to make a lot of other stuff - everything from air conditioners to aircraft carriers. It's one of the reasons newly industrialized nations race to establish an auto industry of their own, even though the costs are huge and there are already too many auto factories making too many cars. Just look at what China is doing. What Germany is doing is more relevant to the U.S., though. According to estimates in the CIA World Factbook, the world's largest exporter in 2006 was Germany, with exports totaling $1.133 trillion. That was $109 billion more than we managed, even though we have almost four times the population. Most of Germany's exports were manufactured goods. Stuff made by Germans in Germany, including a lot of Mercedes-Benzes and BMWs, Audis and VWs. Of course, the total value of Germany's exports will soon be swamped by those of third placed China, a country with more than 10 times the number of people and a rapidly expanding industrial base built on cheap labor costs. But the real point is Germany's export earnings (worth about $13,800 per citizen, four times more than the U.S. figure) come from a country with wages, benefits and production costs as high, or higher, than those right here. So why can Germany do what we can't do? Because in Germany, making stuff is still important. Some economists will argue that America is moving towards a post-industrial age; that we don't have to make stuff because we can simply buy everything we need from the profits generated by the finance-driven economy. (For the record, Germany's 2006 exports were worth $217 billion more than its imports, while U.S. exports were worth $845 billion less than imports. We're sure buying a lot of stuff.) Maybe those economists ought to read a little history, because three other countries - Spain, Holland and Britain - all once dominated the global business of moving money around like America does now, and subsequently slipped into decline when they forgot the importance of making stuff themselves. That's why America should care about its battered and bruised auto industry. http://blogs.motortrend.com/6207244/...oit/index.html __________________ -Tim

08-01-2007, 01:14 PM	#2
Mr. Wyndham I used to be Dragoneye... Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 31,876 View My Garage	hey, I read it then, and I read it again now. One of the Truest articles I've ever had to read. AirGoya __________________ *"Keep the faith."* - Fbodfather

08-01-2007, 06:13 PM	#7
Mindz E.B.A.H. Drives: you wild... Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: In the happy padded room wearing a jacket that makes me hug myself... Posts: 18,421	I'll read it from work __________________ Blue Rush, 2010 SS [Car of the Week 3/22/2010] Traded in on...ZLZBUBB, 2013 ZL1

08-01-2007, 11:21 PM	#12
AirGoya Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago/Carbondale Posts: 815	I knew someone with a Kia would mention something. Anyway my Grandpa used to work with a transmission company and he would go to companies and tell them what was wrong or what they needed. Kia was first starting off when my grandpa went to them he said that they had no idea what they were doing. He said he basicaly had to teach them everything all over again. So thats why. I didnt mean to offend if i did. I got another story my my grandpa told me about Ford. When he went to Ford they presented them with a problem with the tranny. He told them they didnt have the oil mix or something right. He told them what needed to be changed but they would listen so they produced the car. My grandpa was there when all the cars came off the line and couldnt run. The transmissions wouldnt work and they had to tow the cars off and start over. He said if only he would have got a picture of the cars being towed off the line he could have made a lot of money. Anyway I'm glad there are some people who still care about Detroit __________________ -Tim

08-02-2007, 09:54 AM	#14
AirGoya Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago/Carbondale Posts: 815	haha i would too. In the midst of battle I would be along side Lutz killing imports with my oversized chevy symbol. haha Anyway you guys should definetly pass this article around the office or playground or whatever. The link is at the end. __________________ -Tim Last edited by AirGoya; 08-02-2007 at 10:11 AM.

08-01-2007, 01:57 PM	#3
TAG UR IT www.Camaro5store.com Drives: 2014 ZL1 #705 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: SA, Texas Posts: 26,558 View My Garage	Very true and very good read!

08-01-2007, 03:08 PM	#4
MerF Go Rays! Drives: 03 Trailblazer Join Date: May 2007 Location: St Pete, Florida Posts: 2,533	Scary stuff, especially when I think about it, and then see an articel about my fears. I don't like having fears confirmed one bit...but it was still a good read.

08-01-2007, 05:44 PM	#5
z28camaro2471 C5 Member #227 Drives: Camaros Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NY Posts: 808	Well written and very true. I've discussed with people in the past that manufacturing is the basis for our economic success and growth. Manufacturing actually creates wealth. Everything else just moves $ around from one person to another. We could all do our part by purchasing American made products where possible. I know sometimes it's almost impossible, but the good news is we still can buy cars from the big three! I just saw today that for the first time ever, the market share for the big three fell below 50%. For June or it may have been for the entire 2nd quarter, our domestic auto producers only accounted for 48.1% of the total sales in that period. Friends don't let friends buy imports!

08-01-2007, 06:10 PM	#6
darthknight72 Drives: 1983 trans am Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 127	I know I wouldnt be caught dead driving an import.To be quite honest,sometimes it makes me angry when I see all these imports running around.I think especially now there is no reason to buy an import.You can buy a domestic that is just as well built as any import.I guess what Im trying to say is buy american. Long live american muscle. :slice:

08-01-2007, 09:32 PM	#10
darthknight72 Drives: 1983 trans am Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 127	Lets be honest here,when you see a new camaro sitting in a showroom somewhere,what would have to be going through your mind to go over to a toyoya dealership and get that new camry.If you cant afford a V-8,there is nothing wrong with a V-6.You'll still have a way hotter car than anything the imports can come up with.Personally Im getting the biggest V-8 that GM is willing to put in our favorite pony car.They might be our biggest rival but the mustang is still a very nice car if you wanted to go that way.C'mon guys and ladies lets show the imports that american muscle still rules the road.I really hate imports.

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