Need input

[Dexman1349]

I have a couple speakers on their way out, so I thought it would be a good opportunity to upgrade. Went to a local car audio shop and this is what they recommended:

Front: Focal 165AS
Rear: Focal ISC165
Amp: Alpine PDXV9 (includes remote base control)

Existing sub to remain: 12" Alpine Type E, although the existing amp would be replaced with the above.

I would normally be all over doing car upgrades by myself (I've installed everything in my sig), but interior panels and those stupid plastic tabs are the bane of my existence which means I'll pay to have it installed (plus the install comes with a lifetime warranty). Install would also include some Dynamat (I already have it, but they would put it around the speakers).

For all of that, installed, I'm looking at ~$1500. Thoughts?

[baum]

im not a fan of rear speakers in suck a small car. IMO i would just disconnect the rears and not run anything.

i would bi-amp the fronts (ditch the crossovers from the components and wire the tweeter directly to the amp.

Then i would take the money saved from the rears and upgrade the sub (no offense but the type E is their entry level sub)

[Dexman1349]

Thanks for the input. What would you recommend for a sub?

[baum]

for subs im a JL fan. for components im a focal, hertz, audison fan.

the type E is a decent sub (what i call basic though). If you like the sound roll with it until you have any issues. Keep in mind that new amp may produce different sounds than what you hear currently with your setup.

[Knockoutpie]

Do what you want.

[Dexman1349]

I agree, $1500 seems steep.

I like the sound of the Focals, and I think we both posted links to the 165AS for the fronts. The rears seem secondary for a car this size (both from baum's post above and posts by others elsewhere in this subforum), but I have kids in the rear and they like tunes too.

As far as the power goes, they recommended the 4x100 because the shop said they could use the gains to "scale down" to match the speakers and wouldn't be too much. But it makes sense to go with something closer to what is necessary. The first recommendation for the amp was actually an Alpine PDXF4 (same 4x100), but I liked the idea of having the 5th channel (sub) run through the same amp to replace the one I already had. The 5-channel was on sale for $600, and the PDXF4 was only $430.

The speakers and amp was at $1000 with an additional $500 for install.

For the install, prices included all hardware necessary including harnesses and mounting brackets.

[Knockoutpie]

Edit

[Dexman1349]

What if I just left my stock rear speakers?

Go with the Focal 165AS for the fronts, upgrade the amp to the JL XD400/4, and leave everything else as is (stock rears, old sub/amp)?

My main goal is to fix the front speaker that is going out, maintain at least the stock BA quality, and not drop a ton of $. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get a nice top-down build, but I would rather put that money towards a supercharger/cam/coilovers/etc.

[jeffa]

It's better to overpower speakers by 20-30% than to under power them.

Underpowering leads to clipping, and burned voice coils. A speaker rated at 75W can handle an amp that delivers 100W...you want the extra power for improved musical dynamics. More speakers will be destroyed by clipping than being over powered.

[z3R0fo01]

They just set the gain so that the speakers will not clip. 100 watts to those Focals is nothing. I would think it would better to take the rears out than to leave them, but that is just me. I think your original set up will satisfy you, and the price sounds right.

[darkrider01]

Originally Posted by Knockoutpie

TBH 1500 is insane for 2 sets of speakers and an amp. You don't need a 700 dollar amp, though it's a nice amp you really don't need it.

The focal speakers you chose are 60-70 watt rms per speaker, the amp that you have chosen is 100watt rms per speaker. You have such a high chance of blowing them because you're proving 20-25% more rms power than what is recommended man. And if the shop told you get 6 3/4" speaker for the rear then go to another shop, we all know the rear speakers are 6x9"

Here's the amps you're going to need

Option 1. JL http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...%5BIgnore%5D=1

Option 2. Rockford http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...e-R400-4D.html

They both do the same thing, personally I'd go with the rockford and save some money, They're both the same power rating and you won't notice a difference. They'll just be going a little over the recommended RMS rating for the speakers so watch your gains and you'll be ok.



You're going to blow those speakers quick if you do that.

Here's what you should get

http://www.amazon.com/Focal-690AC-Ac.../dp/B00IFAEVIO
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QOHe6Vm...165as&skipvs=T

And either one of those amps, with this setup your speakers will be must less prone to over powering and risking the chance of blowing.

Don't forget!

With aftermarket speakers you'll need the mounting brackets!

http://********.com/product_info.php?products_id=318
http://********.com/product_info.php?products_id=317

By no means was this a lot of research, focal is good but I didn't look at what speakers you should buy, I just chose a nice 6x9 focal speaker and 2 amplifiers that are capable or matching the power range to as near to speck as possible.

With this setup instead of 1100$ without labor you're looking at Either 690$ with the Rockford amp or 886$ with the JL amp, they're both great amps and you can't go wrong either way.

Just saw the amp was a 5ch for a sub but you don't need that, get this

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...%5BIgnore%5D=1 - 160$ for a fat ass subwoofer that's going to blow your brains out and
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...FRBhfgod2FUANg - 1000 watt rms amp at 2 ohm

Remember for your subwoofer if you're going to be doing this Type R you'll need to have an amp supporting the RMS at either 8 ohm or 2 ohm since it's a dual voice coil 4 ohm sub (4+4=8)

Believe me man you'lll be amazed at this build for the money..

With the sub + amp you can add another 300$ onto your price tag so now total will be...

HiFonics is an amazing company, it's less well known but I had a HiFonics amp pushing 2x P3 15" subwoofers and it never got hot, at all.
1186$ with JL Amp or 990$ with Rockford amp.

Originally Posted by Knockoutpie

You can't "scale down" rms

The amount of continuous power, measured in watts, that an amplifier produces is called RMS power. The higher the RMS figure.

It's continuous power meaning it will constantly be pushing 100 watts.
I know my build I gave you seems drastic and a lot of work, but you can keep your box and it would only be to install 1 extra amplifer than what you wanted.

If you're going with a 4ch amp + 1 channel for sub then you might as well make the other 2 channels useful and put 2 rears in there, I can hear a difference If I have rears on or off.

Dude, I'm gonna have to call B.S. here.

First of all, how much power do you think your amp is putting out when you're listening to your speakers at a normal level? Is it putting out full RMS when you're listening to music, even loud music?

The answer is: No.

By your method of reasoning, I should have been through countless sets of speakers by now. I should have blown my subs and components to hell and back. Here is a breakdown:

Focal TN53k tweeters - rated for 15W RMS - 8 ohm
Focal 6 KRX2 woofers - rated at 100W RMS - 2 ohm
Rockford Fosgate T1692 - rated at 100W RMS - 4 ohm
JL Audio 13w6v2 - Rated at 750W RMS - Dual 4 ohm coils (wired parallel at 2 ohms)

Mosconi AS200.4 - rated per channel at:
4 x 200W @ 4 ohm
4 x 320W @ 2 ohm
2 x 640W @ 4 ohm (bridged)
2 x 950W @ 2 ohm (bridged)

Mosconi Gladen One 240.2 - rated per channel at:
2 x 230W @ 4 ohm
2 x 340W @ 2 ohm
1 x 680W @ 4 ohm (bridged)

These are Class A/B amps, so we can roughly estimate that the AS200.4 would be doing around 100W RMS per channel at 8 ohms.

So, that would mean that I'm driving a 15W RMS tweeter with 100W RMS.
I'm driving a 100W RMS woofer with 320W RMS.
I'm driving a 100W RMS 6x9 with 230W RMS.
I'm driving a 750W RMS sub with 950W RMS.

End of days? My car and stereo system are freaks of nature and go against the laws of physics?

For the love of God, please go and get educated about electronics. I appreciate that you want to help people here on the forums, but when you don't know what you;re talking about, you're not helping anyone.

[darkrider01]

Originally Posted by jeffa

It's better to overpower speakers by 20-30% than to under power them.

Underpowering leads to clipping, and burned voice coils. A speaker rated at 75W can handle an amp that delivers 100W...you want the extra power for improved musical dynamics. More speakers will be destroyed by clipping than being over powered.

This x 1000000000

Headroom is a great thing. Amps are kinda like motors (a lot like them really).

[Dexman1349]

lol, 5 responses and 5 different answers. And somehow I'm not surprised...

I think the only thing I was genuinely unsure of when I was at the car audio shop was the rear speaker recommendation. If there's a 6x9 now, why would I not replace with another 6x9?

Losing the front center speaker wasn't a concern as I have read multiple times here that it's the right thing to do for overall sound quality.

[z3R0fo01]

The focal coaxial is a good product. Most of the time it is better to keep the same the brand with front and rear speakers. Focal's 6x9 is pretty pricey I believe, and the rear's ar only for fill and passenger's. Fitting a 6 in a 6x9 is pretty straightforward. I'd say go with it. Those are decent upgrades, and should sound much better than BAs that came iwth the car.