GM almost lost one of its faithful, open letter to Chevrolet

[Cam#7]

We won't see the Z28 until the engine for the C7 Corvette is finalized. There's been a lot of recent debate on this. I'd still like to see a high revving 5.5 liter V8 built on the 3.6 liter V6 technology.

[JJKJ]

Originally Posted by StangKiller-SS

A real GM fan wouldn't find a poorly built car better than the GM product just because the Ford is lighter. Maybe GM could shave some weight from the Camaro by using Power Wheels interiors too.

Like I said, I'm not going to start another Camaro v. Mustang thread.

Another comment asked why I was so concerned about what Ford is doing; I'm concerned because that is the competition. That is the car that I will compete against in autox or road course events in stock class. If the cars are equal or nearly equal then it comes down to driving skill. If there's a large imbalance, then it's an impossible uphill battle to win. Using autox as an example and as only one portion of the argument, look at the F-stock results from the last National Championship. This is guys like you and I out there driving our cars we love everyday, not some professional driving a highly-modified car. Camaros used to dominate this class and it was the car to have. Last year, over 20 of the top 27 finishers were Mustangs. Not a single Camaro. As a loyal GM guy, that bothers me. Not only do I want to see the Camaro on top, but I'd really love to see a Camaro on top with my name as driver next to it. I guarantee that will not happen in a Camaro with the current configuration.

I use autox as only one example, it does not matter what type of racing you like to do--drag racing, road racing, autox, drifting, etc, extra weight is a hinderance.

What I'm saying if you read my posts is that I simply want a lighter-weight car that is capable of competing in grassroots motorsports. It might be fun to watch professional racing, but that's not me. I want to go and do it, not watch it.

If you would all prefer, remove the Boss 302 or Mustang part of my comments if that's what bothers you. Instead insert my comparison to previous generation F-bodies. As I said in my last post, give me a 1LE, WS6, whatever you want to call it.

Maybe you're right, I'm not as GM loyal as I used to be. That doesn't come from what GM or what Ford has done. I think it's more of a function of maturity and living through the recent economy. Blind faith or loyalty have been replaced with a more objective view of the options. I'm more concerned now about getting every dollar's worth of performance from my purchase than in the past.

Everyone has different priorities when they purchase a performance car. Some emphasize styling, some emphasize performance. I fall into the latter group. If I were the former, as it sounds some of you are, then the Camaro wins hands down. No doubt. However, there is a large group of us performance car buyers that emphasize performance.

[JJKJ]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Why the fascination with the Boss, how many do you see on the street? The ones that are out there will more than likely be sitting in a hvac controlled garage. IMO we have the 5.0 covered, now what Chevy has to do is cover the GT500 ala ZL1. Chevy is on the right track.

My fascination with the Boss comes from the concept and well-executed result. I would like Chevy to do the same with the Camaro, that's all. Doesn't even have to be a special model like the Boss; in fact I'd rather it not. I'd rather see a 1LE option on the SS like in the past generations. That would prevent it from being a garage-queen model like you're referring to, and instead a readily available option for those of us who want that extra level of suspension performance and weight reduction.

If I owned a Boss, it would only sit in a HVAC-controlled garage between weekend activities.

[JJKJ]

Ok, lets make this simple. Remove all references in my previous posts regarding other car manufacturers.

My suggestion:

1LE option package:

- 18 or 19" wheel to shave weight and give more options on race rubber

- Revised more aggressive suspension tuning; include adjustable dampers as available on 4th gen 1LEs

- add in some light-weight components; nothing major but enough to shave another 100-150lbs. If necessary delete options (aka again previous gen 1LE's) to save weight that aren't necessary; one option that isn't costly is a set of manual-operated race seats (aka that other car we're not referencing that starts with a "B" )

- revised more aggressive transmission or differential gearing

- Functional brake ducting

This package would be great start and require little or no further development or cost. The Camaro would still be giving up size and some weight disadvantage to the competition but would make up for it with the better drivetrain.

For those who argue that the C5 is too new of a platform to have such options, I disagree. The 4th gen Camaro debuted in 1993 with a 1LE option package from the get-go.

The 1LE package was successful for Camaro in the past, why not make it work again?

[1o.f00t.570rk]

Originally Posted by JJKJ

You have a good point regarding the lifespan of the S197 and the C5, however the Camaro has been in planning for much, much longer than it's been in production. Chevy has the technology to make this happen, and I don't doubt they have a Camaro sitting somewhere in the R&D dept just like I'm describing.

And I'll add that I think that had GM's bean counters had done a better job planning for tough times like Ford had, and they didn't go bankrupt and have to restructure in '09, then those R&D cars would be coming out faster. As it is, they waited till the Camaro had already demonstrated that it was a good seller in spite of some of the drawbacks and misgivings, and are now more willing to invest in bringing some of those vehicles out.

I mean, they didn't even bother to have the V6 engines' horsepower SAE certified till the 2011 model, and while the original sales had the V8 dominating, the V6 is now the most-sold model and is getting a new engine in 2012.

Originally Posted by Slick1

Unless you mean because the GT is better you're mistaken

Hehe, I think the GT is an amazing car, but they aren't being made any longer, so since we've been talking about stock cars that are being made, or will be available in the near future, it doesn't count.

I think that it's valuable to have a company's cars in competitions, or at least have a halo car that is produced in small numbers but represents what the company feels is a pinnacle of it's accomplishments, but unless they make it available to the everyman, it's not going to largely impact more than a few collector's garages.

I will agree with the sentiment that the current Camaro is not the pinnacle of the possible design, but it's still a very important cornerstone in the House of Camaro. It's the first model since the first model to not have a previous run into it, and it had to make it on it's own merits.

Now that it has, and I think sales indicate it's a hit, I believe that GM can have the budget and motivation to push harder and make the Camaro even better than they are now. Were it not doing as well, I doubt you'd be seeing the ZL1 and many of the other changes they've done for 2012.

[28.]

I'll probly get knocked, but in my own opinion, this SS is the best Camaro ever. Heavy or not.. Same goes for the 5.0.. Ppl will always find something to complain about. I do agree with JJKJ about not everyone puts styling before performance.. It works both ways.. But I personally do put performance before styling.. Doesn't mean I won't buy a Camaro soon.. I still plan on an Orange atriped white SS.

[RPO_Z28]

The 1LE was only available to law enforcement so while you may have been able to find one used, it really wasn't a money generator for Chevrolet.

Remember one thing when you buy a Mustang, at the end of the day it sucks driving a Ford and that doesn't change until you get rid of it.

[JJKJ]

Originally Posted by RPO_Z28

The 1LE was only available to law enforcement so while you may have been able to find one used, it really wasn't a money generator for Chevrolet.

Remember one thing when you buy a Mustang, at the end of the day it sucks driving a Ford and that doesn't change until you get rid of it.

Incorrect. The 1LE was available to anyone. You're thinking of the B4C package which had some similarities with the 1LE package. The B4C package was only available to law enforcement departments.

To me it doesn't matter as much who's name or what name is on the side of the car as much as how it makes me smile when I hit the go/stop pedals. Some people get greater satisfaction out of looking at their car, I get greater satisfaction out of driving it--as it was meant to be driven.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by JJKJ

....
The 1LE package was successful for Camaro in the past, why not make it work again?

Agreed...Ford even does a very nice performance package for their V6. (Brakes, suspension, gearing and more).

May not concern most SS owners, but check out this interesting poll:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146176

[Edge.128]

i'm just gonna throw this out there to the OP if you want to build up a track car camaro why not get the "body-in-white" package and build your own??

[SteveFas]

Originally Posted by 1o.f00t.570rk

When the 5th Gen Camaro platform has been out as long as the S-197 and still hasn't offered anything, then you might have grounds to complain. But expecting to see this kind of stuff on the third model year into production doesn't sound reasonable - it sounds petulant.

Ford doesn't have a Corvette equivalent. The Mustang is all they have to compete with both the Camaro and Corvette, so they are definitely going to release trim packages that the Camaro can't compete with but the Corvette can, and that's not a failing of the Camaro.

Agreed

[Russo]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Have you seen Grand Am racing lately? Camaro's been kicking the tail of those Boss's. The Camaro's have enormous potential. Don't try selling that BS here.

im talking about production vehicles in a real world atmosphere..

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Russo

im talking about production vehicles in a real world atmosphere..

They are very close to production vehicles especially in the Continental series. It just shows the capability of the vehicle for the general public. The weight does not seem to be a problem for them, and it doesn't have to be for us.

[Mr. Wyndham]

This is an....."interesting" thread...

"Faithful" is not defined by simply buying and driving over the years. So if the offering of a new Mustang model was enough to tear you away from Chevy...I question the "faith" you really had.

Nevertheless, glad to see you're in a Vette. Hope you enjoy the heck out of it!!