Stock Fuel pump limits?

[collins8]

I am taking car to Vengeance for a tune and I was thinking about adding the Flex fuel sensor to give me the ability to mix ethanol. During the tune they will populate tables for it. With ID 850's what is the max RWHP the stock pump will supply running 93 octane gas. I would like to have an idea before I start messing with ethanol. I have read many threads where a Boost a Pump does not interface well with the FPDM and computer on this car. I know the pump has more but the BAP is a ticking time bomb from what I have read and been told by reputable tuners. So I am trying to figure out the limits of the stock pump.
If you are curious my mods are as follow:
ID 850's
Brian Tooley stage 1
Kooks 1 7/8 long tubes no cats
Tony Mamo ported LS7 Throttle body (Awesome Piece) throttle response is now killer!
stock upper, 9.17 lower. I was thinking of adding 9.55 Lower before final tune. Seeing around 13 psi boost
MM Catch can.
Lingenfelter HX with fans
Yes it has a tune in it that has it running safe but taking it to Vengeance to resolve some issues.

[ZL1Kid_AL]

Im on 100% stock ZL1 pump, no BAP, with id1000s, Making 650whp with e85 (No flex fuel sensor). Car has no fuel issues but is almost maxed out. So id guess 650-670whp would be the limit.
Although every car is different

[2013 ZL1 #7860]

Originally Posted by ZL1Kid_AL

Im on 100% stock ZL1 pump, no BAP, with id1000s, Making 650whp with e85 (No flex fuel sensor). Car has no fuel issues but is almost maxed out. So id guess 650-670whp would be the limit.
Although every car is different

Alan,
I met your uncle on a Job last month. Nice guy!

Those are good numbers!

I think it is important to note though that we (You and I) are at altitude.
Although the dyno gives us an altitude and weather "corrected" HP number, the actual amount of air going through the motor (which determines the fuel requirements) is much lower up here. The actual power being produced and put to the ground is off by at least 25-30% as compared to sea level. They dont give out altitude and weather corrected time slips at Bandimere.

I would be extremely careful going to sea level with the stock pump on E85 and making 650whp. Even a low DA day or cold WOT pull could push it over the edge. The big injectors can help with low fuel pressure but only so much. I have not heard one vendor or tuner suggest E85 on a 650whp build on a stock pump. I doubt even oversized injectors and a BAP is enough for a safe E85 sea level setup. I am thinking your fueling setup is only possible because we are at altitude but that is my opinion.

The OP should see that your 10" lower pulley setup is only making 11 psi. This is a lot less than most see with a 10" lower. Hell, my 10" lower barely makes 10 psi up here and 613whp. I went with ID1300s and a BAP and am not comfortable going E85 without a pump upgrade.

[ZL1Kid_AL]

Originally Posted by 2013 ZL1 #7860

Alan,
I met your uncle on a Job last month. Nice guy!

Those are good numbers!

I think it is important to note though that we (You and I) are at altitude.
Although the dyno gives us an altitude and weather "corrected" HP number, the actual amount of air going through the motor (which determines the fuel requirements) is much lower up here. The actual power being produced and put to the ground is off by at least 25-30% as compared to sea level. They dont give out altitude and weather corrected time slips at Bandimere.

I would be extremely careful going to sea level with the stock pump on E85 and making 650whp. Even a low DA day or cold WOT pull could push it over the edge. The big injectors can help with low fuel pressure but only so much. I have not heard one vendor or tuner suggest E85 on a 650whp build on a stock pump. I doubt even oversized injectors and a BAP is enough for a safe E85 sea level setup. I am thinking your fueling setup is only possible because we are at altitude but that is my opinion.

The OP should see that your 10" lower pulley setup is only making 11 psi. This is a lot less than most see with a 10" lower. Hell, my 10" lower barely makes 10 psi up here and 613whp. I went with ID1300s and a BAP and am not comfortable going E85 without a pump upgrade.

Hey Levi, yes he did mention he spoke with you! Hope all is well!!! I may be reaching out to you before this race season for any pointers and advice on the interchiller

I 100% agree with what you said. I was just throwing around the idea that it may be possible with a big enough injector since the stock pump does flow very well.. Looking back 650 is a stretch at sea level. 630 would be a better cutoff for sea level.

[2013 ZL1 #7860]

Originally Posted by ZL1Kid_AL

Hey Levi, yes he did mention he spoke with you! Hope all is well!!! I may be reaching out to you before this race season for any pointers and advice on the interchiller

I 100% agree with what you said. I was just throwing around the idea that it may be possible with a big enough injector since the stock pump does flow very well.. Looking back 650 is a stretch at sea level. 630 would be a better cutoff for sea level.

No worries, anytime!

I think over 550 on E85 is a stretch and 650 on 91 is the norm.
But like you said, every car and tuner is different.

It really comes down to how much wiggle room to you want?


I have a pile of parts waiting for me to install.
(Cam, Ported Blower, Converter, 102 TB, Upper Pulley, etc.)

I an still undecided about the fuel pump but the car needs E85 and Im leaning towards DSX's new setup and hauling it down for his tuning.

I just got married so that has side tracked my whole schedule.

[ZL1Kid_AL]

Originally Posted by 2013 ZL1 #7860

No worries, anytime!

I think over 550 on E85 is a stretch and 650 on 91 is the norm.
But like you said, every car and tuner is different.

It really comes down to how much wiggle room to you want?


I have a pile of parts waiting for me to install.
(Cam, Ported Blower, Converter, 102 TB, Upper Pulley, etc.)

I an still undecided about the fule pump but the car needs E85 and Im leaning towards DSX's new setup and hauling it down for his tuning.

I just got married so that has side tracked my whole schedule.

Very true, we can talk possibility til we all are blue in the face but the only way to tell is Dataloging or having It on the rollers.

Wow full bolt ons Pretty much. Nice! Getting the blower done locally?

I got a blower cam specd out by Clint with a little help from the guys at BTR, I'm Going to bite the bullet and run the Fore dual pump setup, finally get the N20 Kit in and possibly get the blower ported locally.
First 2 Colorado ZL1s in the 10s this year?? I believe so
Congratulations to you and your wife!!

[Redlineviper]

As others have stated what you can make with the stock pump and what is "safe" can be two different things. Injector size, VE, and the general tune make a bit of a difference. I made over 700 on 93 with an auto and stock pump. I made over 800 with a JMS BAP but have a twin turbo setup with ID1000's.

I can say anything over a e50 blend and my pressure drops so I am definitely at the limits and getting a fuel system.

[Dutchman427]

I am on the stock fuel pump with no BAP.

[collins8]

Originally Posted by Dutchman427

I am on the stock fuel pump with no BAP.

Holly shit, I do not see how you are making that! I must be missing something....

[Dutchman427]

Originally Posted by collins8

Holly shit, I do not see how you are making that! I must be missing something....

Nah, you are not missing anything. I still have the BAP in the box though because I thought I was going to surely need it.

[G Money]

I'm on the stock fuel pump with no BAP and mine is fine........

[fif_gen_powa]

E85, zl1 pump, msd bap, fic 850cc (@3 bar) injectors
I made 640whp and tuner said idc was ~80%

[JANNETTYRACING]

Remember guys it takes 30% more fuel volume on E-85 than the same power levels on Gasoline.

I would be more concerned with Fuel pressure than Duty cycle.

If your at 80% duty cycle with 850 injectors that Automatically sends up a red flag your fuel pressure is Low and your dancing on the Land mines.

Turbos do use a little less fuel to make same power as a Supercharger due to HP lost turning the supercharger.

Ted.

[patdeez92082]

Currently I am on stock pump, 1000cc injectors, boost a pump, flex fuel sensor kit, 2.55 upper pulley, headers, CAI, 72% ethanol (winter blend), and I'm running out of pressure up top.