Understanding F/I in a 5th gen Camaro

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by HufferSS

Perfect...except every reply has to include a bust on Jamie jab in it....it's in the rule books......I thought you were a mod?

"Bust on Jamie jab when talking about FI Rule"

Got it... Hopefully Tran will have it added to the rules by Monday...

[audiomikej]

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

there is a lot that can be searched on here. or the corvette forums...or ls1tech.

Yes I am on corvetteforum.com, owned a FRC cloned to a Z06 for 7 years before I had kids and sold the vette for a new camaro. I drive and enjoy the camaro much more than I did with the vette. If the e-force was available back in the day I would have jumped all over it. I liked the maggie but do not like the look of the hood required to cover it.

[SSE 4 2SS]

I'll give it a stab... And I am certainly no expert... And it'll be pretty Jaime.. Since I'm typing on my iPad...

PD blowers, Maggie etc... The low end grunt is amazing, but they taper off pretty hard... Yes there are six gears, but at least in dragbracing, the action pretty much stays well above 4 grand RPMs, so, they are not the absolutely end all to beat all, but certainly a force to reckon with...

The centrifugal Superchargers, basically a turbo driven by a belt, make power directly proportional to the engine RPMs. And like a turbo, they keep making power the faster you spin them... Yes, there is a trade off, the point where it creates so much heat from compression... That they are no longer efficient, but that's true of all forced induction systems... The only disadvantage of belt driven systems is the parasitic loss... 30-50% depending on the amount of boost being generated...

Turbos are considered to be the most effective with regards to parasitic loss, being down around ten percent, but can easily be the most problematic... I'm personally on turbos five and six with my twin set up... And we are still building the car...

The chart posted on the previous page appears to ve a boost map, which designers use to determine the size of boost appliance with regards to intended engine size, efficiency and rpm range... My first turbos, a vendor kit, was fine for the 376 cubic inch engine, but too small in terms turbo housing impeller size for my built 427... There was almost no lag due to the volume of exhaust being thrown at them...even at idle... They were spinning pretty fast... Jump on it and she went full boost immediately... Which would negate the advantage of the low grunt Maggies... I was well over 600 ft/lbs at 3500 rpm, which is probably in the sweet spot for a Maggie...

Well designed centri systems like Huffers are incredible... They are making full use of the waste gate set boost and will maintain it throughout a run...

IMO, the only disadvantage of a centri on the street is they hit so hard, it's virtually impossible to maintain any degree of traction, much like a turbo setup...

The end result is you need to talk to the experts, at Magnuson, Lysholm, Kenne Bell, precision or any of the other manufacturers and give them an honest appraisal of your intentions and let them guide you through the decision process...Ok, so it wasn't very short... Sorry...

[audiomikej]

Originally Posted by Cpanthers85

I'm doing the LS9 cam with the Eforce. Went LS9 cam because it's a GM engineered blower cam...and it's dirt cheap. I went with the eforce because it's the closest to the LS9 supercharger for about 3/4 of the price. I have the ZL1 fuel pump and the Eforce 60# injectors. I have headers and a CAI. I'm putting it all together now. I prob won't have dyno results until sept because I'm doing it myself on spare weekends...if you follow my build thread you can see what I've bought/installed and what else I end up needing. I'm already looking at the 1LE rear end axles/ gears

Love the build! Glad to know there is someone out there building a camaro that is super powerful yet still street friendly.

[grocerygetter]

Sse42ss...that was spot on.

I also had a FRC vette...99 model. A centri is stronger in a lighter car like a vette...more drastic. A&a was one of my favorite kits. Thus the want for a centri in a car period for me. I actually really like it. I also like the whipples.

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by HufferSS

Perfect...except every reply has to include a bust on Jamie jab in it....it's in the rule books......I thought you were a mod?

Dick! Go puts some graphics on your car!!

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

"Bust on Jamie jab when talking about FI Rule"

Got it... Hopefully Tran will have it added to the rules by Monday...

Doh!:(

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

I'll give it a stab... And I am certainly no expert... And it'll be pretty Jaime.. Since I'm typing on my iPad...

PD blowers, Maggie etc... The low end grunt is amazing, but they taper off pretty hard... Yes there are six gears, but at least in dragbracing, the action pretty much stays well above 4 grand RPMs, so, they are not the absolutely end all to beat all, but certainly a force to reckon with...

The centrifugal Superchargers, basically a turbo driven by a belt, make power directly proportional to the engine RPMs. And like a turbo, they keep making power the faster you spin them... Yes, there is a trade off, the point where it creates so much heat from compression... That they are no longer efficient, but that's true of all forced induction systems... The only disadvantage of belt driven systems is the parasitic loss... 30-50% depending on the amount of boost being generated...

Turbos are considered to be the most effective with regards to parasitic loss, being down around ten percent, but can easily be the most problematic... I'm personally on turbos five and six with my twin set up... And we are still building the car...

The chart posted on the previous page appears to ve a boost map, which designers use to determine the size of boost appliance with regards to intended engine size, efficiency and rpm range... My first turbos, a vendor kit, was fine for the 376 cubic inch engine, but too small in terms turbo housing impeller size for my built 427... There was almost no lag due to the volume of exhaust being thrown at them...even at idle... They were spinning pretty fast... Jump on it and she went full boost immediately... Which would negate the advantage of the low grunt Maggies... I was well over 600 ft/lbs at 3500 rpm, which is probably in the sweet spot for a Maggie...

Well designed centri systems like Huffers are incredible... They are making full use of the waste gate set boost and will maintain it throughout a run...

IMO, the only disadvantage of a centri on the street is they hit so hard, it's virtually impossible to maintain any degree of traction, much like a turbo setup...

The end result is you need to talk to the experts, at Magnuson, Lysholm, Kenne Bell, precision or any of the other manufacturers and give them an honest appraisal of your intentions and let them guide you through the decision process...Ok, so it wasn't very short... Sorry...

If you ever saw the screw install job on this guys wheels you wouldn't believe a word he said. Even if he was 100% correct with this reply.

And OP, you need to take Hufferss's car completely out of the equation. It doesn't apply to us normal people. It makes way to much power and more boost than my Duramax truck!

[audiomikej]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

I'll give it a stab... And I am certainly no expert... And it'll be pretty Jaime.. Since I'm typing on my iPad...

PD blowers, Maggie etc... The low end grunt is amazing, but they taper off pretty hard... Yes there are six gears, but at least in dragbracing, the action pretty much stays well above 4 grand RPMs, so, they are not the absolutely end all to beat all, but certainly a force to reckon with...

The centrifugal Superchargers, basically a turbo driven by a belt, make power directly proportional to the engine RPMs. And like a turbo, they keep making power the faster you spin them... Yes, there is a trade off, the point where it creates so much heat from compression... That they are no longer efficient, but that's true of all forced induction systems... The only disadvantage of belt driven systems is the parasitic loss... 30-50% depending on the amount of boost being generated...

Turbos are considered to be the most effective with regards to parasitic loss, being down around ten percent, but can easily be the most problematic... I'm personally on turbos five and six with my twin set up... And we are still building the car...

The chart posted on the previous page appears to ve a boost map, which designers use to determine the size of boost appliance with regards to intended engine size, efficiency and rpm range... My first turbos, a vendor kit, was fine for the 376 cubic inch engine, but too small in terms turbo housing impeller size for my built 427... There was almost no lag due to the volume of exhaust being thrown at them...even at idle... They were spinning pretty fast... Jump on it and she went full boost immediately... Which would negate the advantage of the low grunt Maggies... I was well over 600 ft/lbs at 3500 rpm, which is probably in the sweet spot for a Maggie...

Well designed centri systems like Huffers are incredible... They are making full use of the waste gate set boost and will maintain it throughout a run...

IMO, the only disadvantage of a centri on the street is they hit so hard, it's virtually impossible to maintain any degree of traction, much like a turbo setup...

The end result is you need to talk to the experts, at Magnuson, Lysholm, Kenne Bell, precision or any of the other manufacturers and give them an honest appraisal of your intentions and let them guide you through the decision process...Ok, so it wasn't very short... Sorry...

It was great, thank you. Huffer's ride is a monster I would love to own a great build like that if I had the means. Bleeding off excess boost at low RPM with a waste gate on the track is no big deal. I would speculate there is at least 75 HP of energy going out the waste gate. At the drag strip, no problem, on the street range anxiety. I use to own a heavily moded big cam/heads mustang, great at WOT, didn't mind the loud. Hated stinky no cat part, did about 110-120 miles on a tank of fuel. One time I forgot to fill up and at 125 I was out of gas. Not going down that road again.

I want to go as big as I reasonably can with cats and at least 12 MPG in the city.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by HufferSS

Perfect...except every reply has to include a bust on Jamie jab in it....it's in the rule books......I thought you were a mod?

Easy on GTA... he's used to being busted on... there are all sorts of rules on that.

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

"Bust on Jamie jab when talking about FI Rule"

Got it... Hopefully Tran will have it added to the rules by Monday...

But you are Tran...

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

Dick! Go puts some graphics on your car!!

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by audiomikej

It was great, thank you. Huffer's ride is a monster I would love to own a great build like that if I had the means. Bleeding off excess boost at low RPM with a waste gate on the track is no big deal. I would speculate there is at least 75 HP of energy going out the waste gate. At the drag strip, no problem, on the street range anxiety. I use to own a heavily moded big cam/heads mustang, great at WOT, didn't mind the loud. Hated stinky no cat part, did about 110-120 miles on a tank of fuel. One time I forgot to fill up and at 125 I was out of gas. Not going down that road again.

I want to go as big as I reasonably can with cats and at least 12 MPG in the city.

FI and cats has not worked well on these cars. The aftermarket cats have a very short life at say 550 rwhp and above. Especially if you are WOT. On the bright side, no cats isn't that bad. In the colder months you can just barely smell anything but when it's warm my car doesn't smell. I get 17 mpg but run 104 all the time so it's not that cheap no matter what the mileage is.:(

[HufferSS]

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

Dick! Go puts some graphics on your car!!

I already did...this is Phase 2 of my modification plan. I think it's HAWT.....I'm adding NAWS to it too.

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by HufferSS

I already did...this is Phase 2 of my modification plan. I think it's HAWT.....I'm adding NAWS to it too.

Attachment 412780

Lots of pretty colors. Like that rainbow bumper sticker you run on your truck!!

I could get mad woman with that ride!

I bet if I had NOS sticker in the front of my car I'd earn your respect!

[audiomikej]

I take back what I said about the centri not being street friendly. I had my bone stock L99 goggles on.

Centri systems can and do make great power on the street if designed correctly. I will share my experience with a centri kit. I had a friend who put on an out of the box centri kit on his bone stock L99. It did not go well, made +40 rwhp peak with this setup. It was the middle of a very hot summer and his tuner could not help. After three weeks the kit was pulled off the car. I always thought the L99 does not scream on the high end like an LS3 and adding a centri is not going to overcome a low RPM torque heavy truck cam.

Has anybody out there installed a centri on a bone stock L99 and been satisfied?

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by audiomikej

I take back what I said about the centri not being street friendly. I had my bone stock L99 goggles on.

Centri systems can and do make great power on the street if designed correctly. I will share my experience with a centri kit. I had a friend who put on an out of the box centri kit on his bone stock L99. It did not go well, made +40 rwhp peak with this setup. It was the middle of a very hot summer and his tuner could not help. After three weeks the kit was pulled off the car. I always thought the L99 does not scream on the high end like an LS3 and adding a centri is not going to overcome a low RPM torque heavy truck cam.

Has anybody out there installed a centri on a bone stock L99 and been satisfied?

I'm sure someone has but most serious l99 owners do a ls3 conversion.