My thoughts of the 2014 Camaro and the Z/28......

[2010_5thgen]

Originally Posted by Southern Comfort

soooo... I think we're covered bench racing all models.

covered bench racing all models???? i dont understand what your saying...

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen

no i have not, but thats the way manufacturers cover their a$$....it is however in the current camaro brochure...even ZL1

There is a video on here of I think Al O where he says about the ZL1 that if you take it to the track the warranty will not be voided... Now if you tear it up,at the track I can see them maybe denying the claim... Or if you have modified the car from stock it may be... Does the brochure say MAY or WILL be voided?

[2010_5thgen]

sure y ou can take it to the track and let it sit in the parking lot and not void the warranty, but if you have damage from the track, your claim will be voided. if you have no issue from the track, then there is no sense in making a claim....


not sure what your deal is, but ive noticed the last few pages that youve made it a point to post on everyones comments....

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen

sure y ou can take it to the track and let it sit in the parking lot and not void the warranty, but if you have damage from the track, your claim will be voided. if you have no issue from the track, then there is no sense in making a claim....


not sure what your deal is, but ive noticed the last few pages that youve made it a point to post on everyones comments....

Is there a forum rule stating I can't respond to others posts?

[CamaroSkooter]

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen

sure y ou can take it to the track and let it sit in the parking lot and not void the warranty, but if you have damage from the track, your claim will be voided. if you have no issue from the track, then there is no sense in making a claim....


not sure what your deal is, but ive noticed the last few pages that youve made it a point to post on everyones comments....

To clarify, taking it to the track to race is not covered, taking it to the track to drive during track day events is covered... So as long as you are not participating in an actual race you are covered... At least that is what was said about the ZL1

[Southern Comfort]

Have they even published the Z/28 warranty info yet?
I suspect they will have a different owners manual. The current book would grow 20% just saying "does not apply to Z/28" on every page.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

OK - we'll start all over again and give you everything you want.....and as to the rest of the enthusiasts...well, to heck with them.

I don't mean to be brusque - but it appears that you really don't care what I say -- you evidently don't care about the explanation - and you don't seem to care what anyone else says. If YOU don't like what we've done, we're wrong....and if someone says they like it - well then, they're just "kissing butt" -- which, if I was one of the people who said "I like it!" - I'd be very much offended by your 'kissing butt" remark.

Perhaps you really need to look at the bigger picture and realize that AS I SAID SEVERAL TIMES over the past week - no matter what we do, we'll not make everyone happy.

I'm sorry you don't like the new car. Perhaps you will in 6 months. If you don't -- well - I don't know that there's anything we can do about it.

Scott, a word of advice (which you probably already know and have been told many times anyway): it's not worth it to respond to such posts, in particular where those insults (especially the personal sort) you mentioned in your opening post form the majority of the content. It's the internet; the sort of tough talk which would see someone end up in a fight in face-to-face confrontation is commonplace in this sort of venue. It's not right, but it is what it is.

As far as the exterior design goes, I was a bit apprehensive when those first, low-res captures from that TV show showed up online, but I bit my tongue and waited for high-res images from the official reveal to come out before saying anything. I'm glad I did, because when those were released I can absolutely understand all the cheering. In my personal opinion I do wish the tail lights didn't wrap around the fender like they do, but that's a very minor nitpick - they absolutely do look very much like a first generation Camaro, more than the 2010-2014 lights which I always regarded as a hybrid of Corvette and classic Camaro design language (which still looked great). Just from the pictures the car looks mean, and the whole team deserves a ton of credit for that. It's a lot more of a refresh than I was expecting for this stage in the fifth-gen's lifecycle.


---

As for the Z/28, to the extent that I'm displeased (which makes how I feel seem a lot more negative than I intend), perhaps I can explain away part of it as being a matter of nomenclature, and also from when I was born and the kind of Camaros I grew up with. I was born around the same time as the first third-gen 1LE's were being produced, so for me the Z28 was 'just' the model you got if you wanted a V8, far from its track-specific heritage of a couple decades earlier, so when the fifth-gen came out with first-gen heritage I had some relearning to do

I simply had thought of a renewed Z/28 as being more like Ford's Boss 302 in package, performance and pricing. Again, I wasn't around to confirm this from first-hand experience, but I don't think it would be wrong to say that having done so would have detracted from the history of the original RPO Z28 Camaro. Having a barely street legal, track-oriented race car is still a great idea, and I'm thrilled that it happened. I guess I would have preferred that such a car wore the name COPO as a regular (if limited) production model instead, which in my opinion not only would have been in keeping with that other storied name in the history of the Camaro. Plus it would have meant I'd get to see both more-attainable Z/28s and even a few COPOs lurking the streets - a man can dream, can't he? .

Team Camaro felt differently and it is the way it is. I respect your reasoning for doing so, and I meant no offense to you or your coworkers with any posts wishing it'd been just a little bit different. The lineup is still phenomenal, and getting better all the time. When the worst thing I can say about it is that the great light blue I love on my 2010 isn't available should (God forbid) something happen and I need a new one, you know I'm pretty pleased.

Even though the Boss is no longer being sold, I'd still like to see the 1LE surpass it in the couple areas where it doesn't already meet or surpass its lighter and more powerful competitor. Maybe incorporate some of the Z/28's weight reduction into it? Just an idea.

[AzItaliaSS]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Is there a forum rule stating I can't respond to others posts?

Nope just doesnt make sense ripping silversurfer for his multiple posts then continuing to do the samething over and over again yourself. Kinda funny when I read that then see your kids helmet about five more times in a page and a half.
You dont have to be defender of the thread. Give it a break.

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21

Scott, I mean you no disrespect. But being a retired GM Engineering veteran of over 30 years and having bought a brand new 1973 Z28 in 1973 at 19 years old I can,'t hold back my opinion. When I first saw the 1968 Camaro I was a huge fan at 15 years old. I had to have a Camaro. I am now 59, soon to be 60 and through the years I watched the Camaro grow uglier and uglier with every change. This was partly because GM would cut funding half way into a design change and ruin the recipe. I watched it with the Oldsmobile Cutlass too. It was horrible to watch great cars ruined by bean counters instead of creative designers.

The reason the 5th generation Camaro was such a great success was all the input by the Focus team. They were not invited this time. How quickly GM forgets. The front of the car isn't that bad but the rear didn't get much thought at all. There are a lot of people on here that has "the Emperor's new clothes" syndrome. Just because you say everyone put in hard work in this redesign doesn't make it not suck. Those taillights are a big fail. They wrap around and are not flat like the 69'. They look like sedan taillights. Cheap at that and only the SS gets LEDs. Not modern in any way and they don't look at all like the 69's. It wasn't until the 4th generation did GM finally start making the Camaro look better after nearly twenty years of ugly designs. Then what, they stopped making them.

I can't believe that only two people besides me has the nuts to tell you the truth. Hence the Emperor's new clothes syndrome. Just because you say " we tried really hard," people feel bad that they insulted you so they are kissing your behind. Don't take it personal. The car has some good attributes but also has some bad ones. That's life.

I am in the process of buying a 2013 Camaro. I had a 2010 Camaro. I loved it. I won't be buying a redesigned new one until the 6th Generation comes out. Hopefully there will be real peoples input in that one.

Just for an example , do a search on or look up....
The 12 disciples of which there are 15.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by AzItaliaSS

Nope just doesnt make sense ripping silversurfer for his multiple posts then continuing to do the samething over and over again yourself. Kinda funny when I read that then see your kids helmet about five more times in a page and a half.
You dont have to be defender of the thread. Give it a break.

Ok you all win......

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

1. Now – on to the Z/28……..

I’ve said many times: “Wanna get a good fight going? Ask Camaro enthusiasts which is the ‘top’ Camaro – Z28 or SS………..”

-- and then put on a crash helmet and watch the fur fly……..

Everyone has their opinion and 90 percent have an opinion that THEY are correct in their beliefs and that those with a different opinion are completely wrong and perhaps motivated by the Devil himself……………….

The new Z/28 has blown some people away and we’re getting emails and letters and phone calls saying “THANK YOU! You FINALLY understand what a Z/28 really is after all these years of ruining the nameplate!.....”

It also has some people saying:

“You RUINED it! I can’t get *insert favorite option here* and so you are a bunch of…..*insert foul words here*….”

Or—

“ ……what do you MEAN it’s not a drag car???......”

Or---

“…..this car should come in at 40K!...” (even though we’ve not discussed price as of yet—and frankly, 40K is as attainable as me being elected as President of the United States……….)

(and for those who think the Z/28 should be 40K – take a 1LE and start counting the costs of all the awesomeness we’ve added to the Camaro in order to make it a true Z/28 – and then take into consideration the costs for engineering and validating – and then consider we have to ensure we don’t lose money on the program….)



Let’s take a walk down memory lane, shall we?

The ONLY reason for the original Z/28…

(note I once again used ‘Z/28’ and not ‘Z28)

….. was to go road racing. SCCA Trans Am racing had a rule that no competing car in the series could have an engine displacement larger than 305 cubic inches.

Our Camaro SS-396 was FAST…..but it wasn’t really a ‘track’ car. So the purpose of the Z/28 was to compete in Trans Am Racing – meaning it had to stick to the road like Velcro. Tidbit: None of the 602 1967 model year Camaros with option code Z28 had a nameplate that said Z/28 on them. It really wasn’t meant to be a main-stream entry.

As we moved into the 2nd gen years, the SCCA engine rule went by the wayside…….. And with increasingly stringent fuel and emissions standards, performance was on the wane……at a startling rate. Fast-rising insurance rates certainly didn’t help things…… And by the early 70s, there really wasn’t room for both a Camaro SS and a Z/28 as we knew them. By 1974, performance was so diminished that the Z/28 was dropped at the end of the model year because it had become to many of us a ‘caricature’ of what it once had been. The SS had been taken from the line up at the end of 1972…….

When the Z28 came back in 1977 (note the difference in the name…..there was no “/”….) it was definitely a road hugger – and it DID offer more performance than any other From then on – whether right or wrong, the Z28 was the ‘performance’ Camaro….until the IROC came along. The Z28 was then relegated to ‘2nd fiddle’ and that didn’t set well with Z/28 purists. But – on the other hand, the Camaro was the “International Race Of Champions” chosen brand – and one could go down to their Chevy Dealer and buy a new Camaro – an IROC Camaro – that sure looked a lot like the real race car.

…….And then Chevy pulled out of IROC racing -- and the Z28 was once again the ‘ultimate’ Camaro…that is, unless you ordered one with 1LE.

Fast forward once again to the advent of the 4th gen. We offered a Camaro Sport Coupe with a V6 engine – or a V-8 Camaro Z28 with an LT1 small-block with a ‘blistering’ 275 horsepower.
(to some of you young-uns – that was a LOT of horsepower in 1993….)

Yes – the Z28 was the ‘ultimate’ Camaro back then………and then Ed Hamburger at SLP Engineering came to us and said something along the lines of: “….Chevy -You’ve done a magnificent job with the Z28 – but I’ve got plans to take it to the next level…”

and we said “Sure!” …and the Camaro SS roared back to life. That also put the Z28 as ‘second-in-line’ and again, Camaro Z/28 purists were not happy! I very much remember getting several phone calls, letters, and emails that weren’t –shall we say – ‘charitable’ in their content…..

It all became moot when the Camaro went onto Hiatus in the late summer of 2002……..and I continued to say to you, our Camaro Enthuiasts – to “keep the faith…” - -that GM understood the importance of the Camaro nameplate. Yes, there were a few people within the corporation that proposed moving the name to the J-car platform.

(Blasephemy!)

(….they were last seen being shoved into a fleet of black suburbans – never to be seen again…….)

As John Heinricy said in a meeting that I attended: “The ugliest sight I can imagine would be tire smoke coming from the FRONT tires of a Camaro!..”)

As I’d said before, as Custodians of the Brand, it was crucial that we ensure that the 5th gen Camaro build upon it’s rich 35 year heritage. And yet, as I mentioned earlier in this article, we were questioned at every step of the way. And that’s not a bad thing, I suppose.

We felt so strongly about the heritage of Camaro and ensuring that the new Camaro would “check all the boxes” that were important to Camaro Enthusiasts - that we drafted the 15 members of the Camaro Enthusiast Advisory Board (better known as ‘The 12 Disciples of which there are 15’)

So—after all that: The 5th gen Camaro hit the streets and blew people away…..it’s still #1 in the segment – so I think the team did a pretty good job, don’t you agree?

At the same time, we’d been working on a Camaro that took performance way past our SS. It had been in the product plan for some time – but with the Housing Melt-down of the mid to late 2000s – and the resultant Bankruptcy of GM (and Chrysler and many vendors) the “HP” Camaro was put on ice. That the “HP” car was put back into the program was a miracle in and of itself. Interestingly, it was internally called the “HP” and kept top secret….. but the intended name was to be Z28. Talk about controversy. There were emails, letters, threats, banging-on-desks – and perhaps some thinly veiled threats made……and it was finally decided that the original Z/28 had a naturally aspirated V8 engine. The “HP” Camaro was to have a supercharged engine…….so perhaps the Z/28 moniker wasn’t really appropriate. Our President, Mr. Mark Reuss – himself a Camaro Enthusiast since the time he was able to recognize a Camaro – made the final call…..the “HP” would be christened “ZL1.” What you DON’T know is that he had another plan in mind for the Z/28.
(Note the “/”…..)

Volumes will be written about the 2014 Z/28 – but what’s important to understand is that while we made “Z28” enthusiasts happy over the years with 275hp – and then 285hp – and then an LS1 based Z28………we continually disappointed the “Z/28” purist.

The 2014 is dedicated to the “Z/28” purist. This is a track car that makes no excuses. That this car is a full three seconds faster on a track than the mighty ZL1 speaks volumes to its intent. Make no mistake – this isn’t a slap at the mightly ZL1. Far from it. If you want a car that blows other cars off a road course on Saturday and Sunday – and yet will get you to the office in comfort on Monday morning – the ZL1 is the car for you. If you want blistering track performance at a reasonable cost – the 1LE is prescribed. And – if you want to shame exotics on a road course – with an automobile that’s not meant for daily driving, then the Z/28 makes no apologies and may grab you by the collar – shake you silly -- and shout “LET’S GO MAKE HISTORY!”

So—that’s been a lot of words.

And that’s my take on why we’ve done what we’ve done.

Many already understood before I started typing away.

Some others now have a better understanding.

Yet others will say “Scott – go take a long walk on a short dock…..” Some of those are true Camaro enthusiasts and just are upset that what we’ve done isn’t in keeping with what they’d like or prefer.

And then there are the trolls………….who like nothing more than to start something……….

As I said at the very beginning…..we at Team Camaro are ‘The Custodians of the Brand” – and we take our jobs very seriously. Every decision is in many ways, agonizing. But – we have to make hard and fast decisions.

And yes – it hurts when we’re constantly ‘called on the carpet’ – and yet rarely if ever get an apology afterward. We have broad shoulders and our skin is tough…but it IS discouraging and a bit frustrating to be constantly insulted. And for an old codger like me (I’m quite certain I’m the oldest in the group…..) I tend to lose my temper more than I used to when people become ‘surly’…..

So – in the final analysis…………

……….we hope you’ll go check out the family of 2014 Camaros when they become available. We hope that the family Camaros will offer you a great spread of choices

Let me introduce the family……….

>323 horsepower LS and LT

>400 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS

>426 horsepower SS/1LE

>580 horsepower ZL1

And the new Camaro Z/28…….


…every one of them designed, engineered, and built to instill “Perma-Grin.”

What’s not to love?

Thanks for taking the time to read my ruminations and I hope you’ve got a better understanding of ‘why’………..

It’s the best time EVER to be a Camaro Enthusiast.


Note: The opinions shared in this email are the opinions of ME….and not necessarily those of the company for whom I work.....

Couldn't have said it better, so I'm not going to try.

I think I'll just quote you a lot instead.

Thanks for all you and the Camaro team do, Fbodfather!!!

[2010_5thgen]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

To clarify, taking it to the track to race is not covered, taking it to the track to drive during track day events is covered... So as long as you are not participating in an actual race you are covered... At least that is what was said about the ZL1

so you can drive average speeds on a race track....that's not considered a "track car".....

[Ringo64]

Three things I'd have to comment on:
1. Unfortunately those who are really passionate about something are going to be the ones who are the most vocal about it, whether they hate it or love it (mostly though its when they hate it)
2. People are always "against" change of any sort so you will face that no matter the industry you are in.
3. People will always "say" they could do a better job, then when push comes to shove they wouldn't know where to begin!

I'm am not 100% goo-goo about the re-design for 2014 but improvements must be made and I am giddy with excitement about a true Z/28!!

You and the rest of the Camaro faithful need to continue your job FBODfather, the fact that the Camaro has had so much success is true measurement of your good work!