Shno's House of Z

[Mr. Wyndham]

I seriously doubt the new Mustang will have much hope of out handling the ZL1. Which leaves the segment in a particular conundrum, if you ask me...

The GT500 and ZL1 were initially thought to be two similar answers to the same question...it appears now that Chevy has chosen to go full-on GT/Supercar by combining ride, comfort, handling, competence, acceleration & style....while Ford has decided to take their original formula and just put it on steroids...you get a straight-line monster...and a competent handler, but not both, and definitely not a comparable level of refinement...

I really don't think I see them as similar cars, anymore...so should Chevy drop an LS9 into an FE4 SS and call it a day?

I'd still like to see a Z28...but I see N3's point about the original premise for the car being somewhat moot, now.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I seriously doubt the new Mustang will have much hope of out handling the ZL1. Which leaves the segment in a particular conundrum, if you ask me...

The GT500 and ZL1 were initially thought to be two similar answers to the same question...it appears now that Chevy has chosen to go full-on GT/Supercar by combining ride, comfort, handling, competence, acceleration & style....while Ford has decided to take their original formula and just put it on steroids...you get a straight-line monster...and a competent handler, but not both, and definitely not a comparable level of refinement...

I really don't think I see them as similar cars, anymore...so should Chevy drop an LS9 into an FE4 SS and call it a day?

I'd still like to see a Z28...but I see N3's point about the original premise for the car being somewhat moot, now.

Joe is so close to the solution to preserve the ZL1 as the MOST powerful version of the Camaro. He just needs a little help to finish the idea.

Fast forward to the 2014 model year.

The current ZL1 becomes the 1LE. It could become the Z/28 if the Camaro TEAM sees fit to fit a square set of wheels and tires with a coilover suspension, rear seat delete and dual 5 point harnesses.

The updated ZL1 gets the LS9.

What this doesn't do is fill the price gap. The 1LE / Z/28 would price out at the current ZL1 price point and the ZL1 would head north. At the same time, Ford would be hard pressed to answer this brace of Zs on the current Mustang chassis.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Joe is so close to the solution to preserve the ZL1 as the MOST powerful version of the Camaro. He just needs a little help to finish the idea.

Fast forward to the 2014 model year.

The current ZL1 becomes the 1LE. It could become the Z/28 if the Camaro TEAM sees fit to fit a square set of wheels and tires with a coilover suspension, rear seat delete and dual 5 point harnesses.

The updated ZL1 gets the LS9.

What this doesn't do is fill the price gap. The 1LE / Z/28 would price out at the current ZL1 price point and the ZL1 would head north. At the same time, Ford would be hard pressed to answer this brace of Zs on the current Mustang chassis.

See...If you remove the seats...you open yourself to a very logical argument, I think...why not let the Corvette do that duty - it's much more well-suited to begin with...

If I were king of the world...the 6th generation car would appear @ 3400 lbs with a base T4 pushing 300hp, mid-range 6 pushing 350, an entry-level 8 pushing 440 and a range-topping TTV8 pushing 550.

LS < LT < SS < ZL1 < Corvette

And then you would have another model slip in between the SS and the ZL1, however, it wouldn't be a "new" model....it'd be the equivalent of the Grand Sport Corvette in that it takes all the handling parts off from Z development and bolts them up to a stripped-as-it-comes-from-factory SS, making a Z28.

I suppose this could be done today, as well....remains to be seen if I'll be king of the world before the 6th gen comes out, though...

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

See...If you remove the seats...you open yourself to a very logical argument, I think...why not let the Corvette do that duty - it's much more well-suited to begin with...

If I were king of the world...the 6th generation car would appear @ 3400 lbs with a base T4 pushing 300hp, mid-range 6 pushing 350, an entry-level 8 pushing 440 and a range-topping TTV8 pushing 550.

LS < LT < SS < ZL1 < Corvette

And then you would have another model slip in between the SS and the ZL1, however, it wouldn't be a "new" model....it'd be the equivalent of the Grand Sport Corvette in that it takes all the handling parts off from Z development and bolts them up to a stripped-as-it-comes-from-factory SS, making a Z28.

I suppose this could be done today, as well....remains to be seen if I'll be king of the world before the 6th gen comes out, though...

Vette tears up track = dog bites man

Z/28 tears up 'entry level' Vette = man bites BIG dog

I don't buy this Chevy will never let the Camaro be faster than the Vette. As long as the Camaro cost more than the Vette is beats, let them have at it and may the best Chevy TEAM win

[LOWDOWN]

The Team has to look at the overall (BIG) picture, here.

Sales, at the moment, and "interest", at the moment, are in a great place considering the Camaro approaches 3 full years of sustained sales success. The ZL1's arrival, and results on-track, put the car at the pinnacle...currently. The ZL1's arrival also has had the desired effect of invigorating interest in ALL Camaros. BUT...you can't rest on your laurels, not for a second...

1LE polls: In place because they were requested. The results indicate "Build it and they will come". BUT...in my feeble mind...get the details right. Polls indicate about 50% seek some added umph. Polls indicate, 3-to-1, 1SS should be the starting point and, to be as inclusive as possible, a 2SS-type version should be available...perhaps with an Automatic, as well (Horrors! The man has lost his mind!). "Focued"...but ALSO focused on VOLUME...and therefore Market Share.

Clearly, a 1LE bridges the pricing chasm 'tween SS and ZL1...will add volume...will add Share...will add profit$... But "the devil IS in the details"...AND the pricing. MG9/3.73 required. Ram Air/CAI, too.

ZL1+: Only likely if "required"...and I'm not yet convinced it is/will be. I happen to believe the Camaro's basic structure, and suspension capabilities, is superior in all regards excepting weight which really seems to be compensated for with MRC and wheels/tires/brakes. Production-wise, I'm NOT expecting a major diet at this late point.

If required, call up "Scotty"...in Wixom...and ask for the 'NINER!

Z/28: If only...and, frankly, who knows?! 1LE+...the "+" in the engine bay...

Gen-5 Send-off: A unique opportunity exists for a '14.5 uber-special send-off Model, that encompasses all the lessons learned with the Gen-5. It could encompass a "Wixom Wonder"...or it could bridge the "old" Gen-5 chassis with the "new" Gen-5 SBC in its ultra-power version...something we're NOT likely to see the likes of, post-'15, when the clamps of CAFE '16 fully tighten. Built in relatively small numbers (something between ZR1 and ZL1, or one per dealer) with a price tag commensurate of its "totality". Uber-special...uber-priced. And THIS one would put to rest any doubts that a Camaro is the "ultimate" of its Class...until the world beholds the fabulous Gen-6!

"Wishful thinking"? Damn straight...but the Team can do it. And will, if need be...

[OldScoolCamaro]

There will be no possible signifcant weight reduction program for the Zeta body/chasis on the Gen5. The strong suit of the Gen 5 is it's structural strength and rigidity as pointed out by Pete. The ZL1's added performance gear weight, despite the amazing efforts of Chevy engineers, maintained an even keel for the ZL1 and kept it within an "acceptable" range. It is roadworthy and comfortable by recent accounts. MRC as mentioned earlier is now the the performance standard. Z-28 as widely discussed must meet or beat the competition or it's a no go. We have argued, discussed, and debated this Z-28 issue from one end of the Universe and back. Perhaps, I am now finally coming to the conclusion it is best to wait until 2015 when the 2016 Gen is rumored to be introduced. It will be smaller and much lighter, and have a rumored 6.2L DI Gen5 powerplant with bright potential. For now, I see the 1LE concept coming to fruition in one way shape or form within a model year or two. I also can see potential in Pete's vision of a LS9 powered ZL1. There is a distinct, detailed plan running in the background I feel for the Z-28. And there is no rush in executing it.

[Mr Twisty]

Unless there's a fleet of LS9 cars already deep into testing I don't think it will happen.

Here's what they COULD do (but they won't), Build some LS cars with ZL1 drivetrain/suspension and put a crate motor discount coupon in the glove box

[LOWDOWN]

I raised a thread, here, some time back, regarding a "Z/36" Package...1LS V6/6-speed with ZL1-type wheels/tires/brakes with FE4 etc....

The bruises have almost faded...and the scabs from the contusions are gone...but the rope burns on my wrists, where they were attached to the stake, still linger...

[JusticePete]

Vote early. Vote OFTEN! It is the Chicago way.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200804

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

Unless there's a fleet of LS9 cars already deep into testing I don't think it will happen.

I am guessing it is already done. Maybe I am hoping it is already done?

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

Here's what they COULD do (but they won't), Build some LS cars with ZL1 drivetrain/suspension and put a crate motor discount coupon in the glove box

You could build a 1LE with a six and everything else ZL1 behind it. If Chevrolet did build that car, the crate motor coupon might be a GREAT idea. The only gotcha is the gauges in the OE wiring harness won't work with a create motor. Is there a black box to convert the system?

[LOWDOWN]

Concerning the 1LE:

The POLL To End ALL Polls! http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...67#post4443167

Let 'em know...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The only gotcha is the gauges in the OE wiring harness won't work with a create motor. Is there a black box to convert the system?

If they can hack into mainframes, they can crack this baby...

I'm sure someone somewhere enjoys "cold pizza and warm beer on Friday nites"...

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

I raised a thread, here, some time back, regarding a "Z/36" Package...1LS V6/6-speed with ZL1-type wheels/tires/brakes with FE4 etc....

The bruises have almost faded...and the scabs from the contusions are gone...but the rope burns on my wrists, where they were attached to the stake, still linger...

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I am guessing it is already done. Maybe I am hoping it is already done?



You could build a 1LE with a six and everything else ZL1 behind it. If Chevrolet did build that car, the crate motor coupon might be a GREAT idea. The only gotcha is the gauges in the OE wiring harness won't work with a create motor. Is there a black box to convert the system?

The ECM needs to be able to talk to the BCM... I'm betcha them Lingenfelter boys know

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

The ECM needs to be able to talk to the BCM... I'm betcha them Lingenfelter boys know

You're on, but I am not Mitt. Our wager is 25 Cents for bragging rights